A Breath of fresh air

[Preston]

I stand by what I said, and to my mind, hopefully always will. I think?

I see absolute no point in giving up any government benefits to working a full-time minimum wage job, then being able to survive less. Tis' madness - complete and total insanity.

-Sorry if I didn't make myself more clear-upon re-reading, it's evident that I did not. I was referring to people I personally knew in my past, whom, in holding conversations with them, I concluded that if they would only get up and stop feeling sorry for themselves, and do SOMETHING, instead of absolutely nothing (I am referring specifically to those who won't do any work because they feel somehow, that the world owes them something (or a living) and that if they can't get it from the rest of the world they will get it from their own government, if they can, that is.

Perhaps, they could not do anything to achieve the goals you speak of? I know of this. Sometimes things that some people can do other cannot and vice-versa.

-The other group of people that I was referring to was: those who have babies out of wedlock and get paid by their goverment for it. I'm sure that no one on this board knows me enough to know how do I feel about that--but I can assure you that I have a very dim view of it, to put it mildly. It was suggested to me one time that "Yes I think that taxpayers should help with the first one and after that, no more." My reply was: "I don't think so. I didn't get anyone pregnant." I won't say here what I tacked onto that conversation after that point. That just wouldn't be proper.

LONG LIVE WELFARE! 8-)

If one does not have goals, the goal striving mechanism within their psyche has nothing to work towards. I know many people who are like that, who you can talk to til you are tired of it, to encourage them in a direction. But, until they decide to get up and do something, one might as well blow ones breath and fight the buzzards, you know?

Goals in modern times are "modern" goals - they are overrated, imo. Imo, the goal in life should be achieving a better human nature. Something that few have, imo. Success in modernized countries is junk, stuff that goes down the drain.

I know all about it, minimum wage.

That seems an overly cocky thing to say? Especially for someone who apparently worked it for a brief period, in the skeem of things. I, too, have worked minimum wage though I say anything but I know all about it.

There is a way out, leaning on the government isn't it. You know why? The government is liable to crumble/fail, then what? Where will one turn, what will one do?

Without the government in modern times there would probably be little wealth. Also, no retirement.

They will live homeless, along with the 100's of millions (probably billion) worldwide who already do.

What must we do?

Be more fair to each other. Otherwise, the disease of greed, famine, diseases, poverty, starvation, death, murder, etc. - everything terrible in this world will continue to spread until the end of the world, imo.

[Sorrano]

Sorry about your friend - didn't mean that what I wrote ought to upset anyone...

What I really meant to communicate is that adversity can be a useful tool in that it prompts a person to pull on a power that oftentimes is forgotten that one does actually possess-in order to know that indeed it is there. A sort of 'handing up' of a person in a charitable way vice a 'handing out' which might do less good than the former...

E

You certainly did not offend me. The truth with my friend is that he simply refuses to improve upon himself; it's a sad fact and notwithstanding all the warnings and offers for help he has gotten himself where now is.

You are right that adversity can and often is the means by which we are strengthened. You remember the old saying, "When the going gets rough the tough gets going." Your comments were definitely in tune and I appreciated what you said.

[EternaLisa]

Your comment hit hard with me, but because a friend of mine made some terrible choices throughout his life and today is on the verge of spending his remaining years in a nursing home.

Sorry about your friend - didn't mean that what I wrote ought to upset anyone...

What I really meant to communicate is that adversity can be a useful tool in that it prompts a person to pull on a power that oftentimes is forgotten that one does actually possess-in order to know that indeed it is there. A sort of 'handing up' of a person in a charitable way vice a 'handing out' which might do less good than the former...

E

[Sorrano]

Unfortunately, in the end -- they will find out that it is not so easy to allow themselves to backslide like that. One's (whoever that defines) occupation in so many cases-has proven to be one's preservation of sanity/sense of self-worth. Victims of their own choice selected, they'll be the 'hardest hit' if/when the time comes.
I do believe in being charitable to those who truly do need assistance-those who can't function entirely on their own-and the elderly, as a couple examples.-I am of the opinion that these benefit more greatly. Such assistance should be reserved for the truly needy.

Your comment hit hard with me, but because a friend of mine made some terrible choices throughout his life and today is on the verge of spending his remaining years in a nursing home. He's never taken care of himself, never exercised, never ate healthily, and today he's overweight, has very little mobility and has been on disability for the past few years. His kidneys reacted (we think that he had some sugar; he's diabetic) and he went into a coma and nearly died. But all of that could have been prevented by better choices. It's sad.

[EternaLisa]

-The problem is society is so insane that they consider this way of living sane!!!

-Yeah, I agree: it's all a matter of perception and belief, though, isn't it?

I don't know if this will help: but consider it anyway: WHO do you think is really in control of things anyway? Man? If man was in control, do you think that mankind would have progressed as far as right up to now?

Man likes to think that he is in control, doesn't he? Sure does. Every day.

Man likes to think that it is he that invented something, that created something.

I have a newsflash: man has not invented one single solitary thing. Reflect on this, and revelation will occur.

Just something to think about......

[EternaLisa]

-Though, it seems to me the point you are missing is that to work for minimum wage without receiving any kind of benefits is next to an impossibility to try and support yourself. Does that make sense?

--It is the slave-drivers making them work for minimum and at the same time making it possible for their company to work and at the same time reaping all the benefits.

--As for the sanity/self-worth, imo, that is ridiculous nonsense - and a lot of it too.

-Sorry if I didn't make myself more clear-upon re-reading, it's evident that I did not. I was referring to people I personally knew in my past, whom, in holding conversations with them, I concluded that if they would only get up and stop feeling sorry for themselves, and do SOMETHING, instead of absolutely nothing (I am referring specifically to those who won't do any work because they feel somehow, that the world owes them something (or a living) and that if they can't get it from the rest of the world they will get it from their own government, if they can, that is.

-The other group of people that I was referring to was: those who have babies out of wedlock and get paid by their goverment for it. I'm sure that no one on this board knows me enough to know how do I feel about that--but I can assure you that I have a very dim view of it, to put it mildly. It was suggested to me one time that "Yes I think that taxpayers should help with the first one and after that, no more." My reply was: "I don't think so. I didn't get anyone pregnant." I won't say here what I tacked onto that conversation after that point. That just wouldn't be proper.

-I well know about working for minimum wage-I've done it before. My bills exceeded my budget. What I learned I had to do, back then, was to live within my means. I was encouraged to go to college and stay in there a few years earlier and I didn't do it. So, as long as I was willing to work for minimum wage and not do any better --Until I woke up one day and decided that I had better take charge of that responsibility unto myself -- I was unaware actually that I was the one keeping myself there with my dominant thoughts about myself and the situation. I shortly thereafter did something: I joined the Air Force National Guard to gain experience in something that I wanted to do and use that as a stepping stone to higher goals that I realized I could visualize after all and actually work towards that), I was much much younger than I was now (I'm an old soul for sure, at this writing)

If one does not have goals, the goal striving mechanism within their psyche has nothing to work towards. I know many people who are like that, who you can talk to til you are tired of it, to encourage them in a direction. But, until they decide to get up and do something, one might as well blow ones breath and fight the buzzards, you know?

I know all about it, minimum wage.

There is a way out, leaning on the government isn't it. You know why? The government is liable to crumble/fail, then what? Where will one turn, what will one do?

What must we do?

[Preston]

Unfortunately, in the end -- they will find out that it is not so easy to allow themselves to backslide like that. One's (whoever that defines) occupation in so many cases-has proven to be one's preservation of sanity/sense of self-worth. Victims of their own choice selected, they'll be the 'hardest hit' if/when the time comes.
I do believe in being charitable to those who truly do need assistance-those who can't function entirely on their own-and the elderly, as a couple examples.-I am of the opinion that these benefit more greatly. Such assistance should be reserved for the truly needy.

I am not trying to sound rude, though, this is exactly the kind of talk that really bothers me to a great degree.

I would like to point out that many people who are living off of the government do work part-time on and off.

Though, it seems to me the point you are missing is that to work for minimum wage without receiving any kind of benefits is next to an impossibility to try and support yourself. Does that make sense?

Also, I would like to say that the only reason this disgrace of a society works is because of people working for minimum wage. Without them it will and would have never been.

It is the slave-drivers making them work for minimum and at the same time making it possible for their company to work and at the same time reaping all the benefits.

As for the sanity/self-worth, imo, that is ridiculous nonsense - and a lot of it too. The world survived since the beginning and people have lived far more sanely for millions and millions of years with no type of technology. Now the world is dying and people are insane yet consider themselves as sane - when they are anything but. The problem is society is so insane that they consider this way of living sane!!!

Imo, the great majority of the population has gone completely insane with their disgraceful lies, deceit, vanity, lust, greed, etc.

[EternaLisa]

Keep in mind that there are those who will, by choice, go with food stamps because it's easier than working.

Unfortunately, in the end -- they will find out that it is not so easy to allow themselves to backslide like that. One's (whoever that defines) occupation in so many cases-has proven to be one's preservation of sanity/sense of self-worth. Victims of their own choice selected, they'll be the 'hardest hit' if/when the time comes.
I do believe in being charitable to those who truly do need assistance-those who can't function entirely on their own-and the elderly, as a couple examples.-I am of the opinion that these benefit more greatly. Such assistance should be reserved for the truly needy.

[Sorrano]

Negative population does have its consequences:

http://geography.about.com/od/popula...phy/a/zero.htm

[Preston]

Recommended documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAReFb-UkYY

Here is another interesting "idea" documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI31a2L1Olw

The documentary has to do with what is happening to the water. Where I live the lakes have to go down again due to a stage 1 (I think) drought crisis. A few years ago, they had dropped to a point where I did not think some of them would make it back. They did though.

What needs to be done regarding the population is laws on how many children a family can have. What really needs to be done is some kind of new forms of government without all this corruption.

[Peter]

Recommended documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAReFb-UkYY

[Quijote]

But we don't have to cut down the rain forests. The world population isn't forcing us to do that [...]

Another good point, but rather begs the question "why"? Has it not something to do with certain idiot consumers wishing to have rare-wood furniture (such as teak, for example)? I refuse to buy non-sustainable wood products, and whilst pine is rather boring, I don't wish to deplete the "lungs" of our planet earth.

[Quijote]

Species go extinct. They were going extinct before man ever started building a civilization. That's the way of the natural world [...]

Good point. Apropos species, here's an interesting little article about it :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ate-scientists

[Chris]

Chris I can't agree - just take the destruction of the rain forests. They cover only 5% of the Earth's surface, but contain more than half of all the plant and animal species on the planet. Every year, 15 million hectares of tropical forests are cleared. At that pace, almost all the world's rainforests will be lost in 50 years. It is estimated that 137 species of plants and animals are wiped out every day!

But we don't have to cut down the rain forests. The world population isn't forcing us to do that.

With the terrible poverty, the famine, lack of clean water and appalling social conditions that billions already experience I'm puzzled as to how you imagine not only that we are coping, but that we will cope with an extra 3 billion in 30 years time, especially as most of those will be in the poorest countries that are already struggling?

Because there was terrible poverty, famine, lack of clean water, and appalling social conditions when the population was much smaller too. People seem to have this idea that if we just had a smaller population, more advanced technology, or something, poverty would vanish. But it won't. The causes of poverty are more complex than that. We have more than enough resources to care for every single person in the world today. No one needs to be hungry. But unfortunately there is much hunger.

I'm not advocating a policy of 'killing people off'! What is needed is education - it has been shown that where people are better educated they voluntarily choose to have smaller families.

Yes - TOO small. Such that the population cannot even be maintained! Of course no sensible person is in favor of killing people off. But it's never presented like that. I'm sure most Germans were not in favor of putting Jews in concentrations camps and killing them off by the thousands. But it happened anyway. And while we all love to think that we are so much more intelligent and enlightened than all the people who lived before us, that just isn't true. We can be as cruel and as stupid as anyone who lived before us. All it takes is one person with charisma and a "crisis" that he is able to solve for us to bring about the most horrific of solutions. It's happened before. It's happening NOW, in fact.

[Chris]

Chris, I have heard from philanthropists that the Earth can sustain around 8 billion 'overall'. Though, I completely disagree with that. Resources are running dry. The oceans, animals, plant-life, etc. are dying and being wiped out. Species are becoming extinct. The Earth is dying.

Species go extinct. They were going extinct before man ever started building a civilization. That's the way of the natural world. That's no indication of overpopulation. But we can make more than enough food, water, and energy for everyone that lives on earth and far more. And we are developing ever-better technologies. We can harness energy directly from the sun, and soon, right from the oceans.

The population is completely out-of-hand. Schools in America are packed, there are not enough teachers and money, the roads need fixed but cannot be, etc. - it is just too much to maintain, and greatly in the end.

I think America is doing pretty well. Some areas seem very densely populated, but then, you take a drive. You drive for hours and hours and days. And you see absolutely nothing. There is much of this country with hardly anyone in it. Remember, just because people choose to huddle together in big cities doesn't mean they have to. Some say urban life is poisonous to the human spirit, and maybe that's true.

The amount of consumption and wastefulness is horrifying. I heard that America alone consumes more resources than China! Which has around 3 times the population.

That's true. There are certainly people who consume more than their fair share, and there is surely much waste. Those problems will eventually be solved, if not by choice than by necessity. I imagine there will be a wake-up call for quite a few people in the future in this regard.