Mozart's Jupiter

[painter_mindscapes]

ALL: Please discuss ideas and not each other. Passionate discussion is good, but don't make it personal. Also, I want this forum to be friendly to students and younger audiences, so please refrain from using vulgar language.

then why have you removed 'philip' post???????

i find it offensive and asinine in other forums he would be banned.

[Michael]

One might also note that the opening notes to Beethoven's 1st Symphony (C Major, same key as the Jupiter) are very much different from the opening of Beethoven's 5th Symphony (C Minor). Yet I find the rest of the work just as exciting to me in its own way as the 5th Symphony.

Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 2 (which is really his first), has a similar opening to the Jupiter - a staccato theme followed almost immediately by a more melodic one. Yes, I know the differences outweigh the resemblances, and it's not a symphony and it's in B flat but both works have the classical "male and female" opening.

I like the Beethoven concerto and the First symphony immensely even though I came to them a good bit after the bigger middle and late works. I actually didn't like them for years but they crept up on me.

[Sorrano]

If you take the opening to LvB 5th, simple 4 notes in 2/4 time, repeated twice, sets the tone for something volcanic.

Jupiter opening is common time, high note pause then ascending chord then goes alone nicely then left off at the clarinets..??? back to the ascending cords?? emotionally I have no idea where's it's going or coming from.

I'm looking at scores from
http://conquest.imslp.info/files/img...n_Do_mayor.pdf

One might also note that the opening notes to Beethoven's 1st Symphony (C Major, same key as the Jupiter) are very much different from the opening of Beethoven's 5th Symphony (C Minor). Yet I find the rest of the work just as exciting to me in its own way as the 5th Symphony.

[Chris]

ALL: Please discuss ideas and not each other. Passionate discussion is good, but don't make it personal. Also, I want this forum to be friendly to students and younger audiences, so please refrain from using vulgar language.

[Sorrano]

If you take the opening to LvB 5th, simple 4 notes in 2/4 time, repeated twice, sets the tone for something volcanic.

Jupiter opening is common time, high note pause then ascending chord then goes alone nicely then left off at the clarinets..??? back to the ascending cords?? emotionally I have no idea where's it's going or coming from.

I'm looking at scores from
http://conquest.imslp.info/files/img...n_Do_mayor.pdf

Beethoven's 5th Symphony and Mozart's 41st are two different symphonies. I do not expect them to be the same. One is in a major key the other minor. Your point is not apparent to me.

[Michael]

A surprising assertion from you, Michael! I don't think I agree at all...

My assertion was: "Without the Jupiter, there would have been no Eroica...etc."

I probably should amend it to read: "Without Haydn and Mozart, there would have been no Beethoven". You know what I mean.

[painter_mindscapes]

The opening notes sets a mood, an atmosphere, for the work which, in my opinion, does not disappoint. As for tempo and notes I do not know what you mean.

If you take the opening to LvB 5th, simple 4 notes in 2/4 time, repeated twice, sets the tone for something volcanic.

Jupiter opening is common time, high note pause then ascending chord then goes alone nicely then left off at the clarinets..??? back to the ascending cords?? emotionally I have no idea where's it's going or coming from.

I'm looking at scores from
http://conquest.imslp.info/files/img...n_Do_mayor.pdf

[Michael]

When I listen to those of LvB, I don't hear any resemblances to Jupiter. In movements, notes, or tempo. What are you basing this on?

.

My point was that the Jupiter was the first end-weighted symphony. Also, there is an exact quotation from the slow movement of the Jupiter in the finale of Beethoven's Fifth. The opening notes of the finale of Mozart's G minor are identical to the third movement of the Beethoven C minor. Some people have suggested that this is a coincidence but the Mozart quotations - including 29 bars of the Jupiter - have been found in Beethoven's sketchbooks for the Fifth symphony.

My way of dealing with music I find uncongenial is to play it in the background while performing other tasks. Sometimes you may get to like it by osmosis. If that doesn't work, do what Peter suggests and leave it - for a time anyway. There is no law that says you must like everything.

Again, it's possible to admire a work without loving or even liking it. Now and again, I listen to music I actively dislike. It's good for you - it stimulates the phagocites!







.

[painter_mindscapes]

Peter? As far as I am aware he has not made any personal attacks. This is his forum, anyway.

My mistake, it was 'Phillip'

[painter_mindscapes]

Examples?

Don't remember exact page but I read it in one of these books

Barry Cooper, Beethoven
Edmund Morris, Beethoven
Nicholas Cook, Beethoven Symphony No 9

[Sorrano]

When I listen to those of LvB, I don't hear any resemblances to Jupiter. In movements, notes, or tempo. What are you basing this on?

Can you clarify what you mean regarding lack of resemblance to notes or tempo? Beethoven composed many works with the same root tonal structure and used similar tempo markings.

[Sorrano]

Why do you find it that way? exciting as in anticipation? is the the tempo? notes? can you clarify why?

The opening notes sets a mood, an atmosphere, for the work which, in my opinion, does not disappoint. As for tempo and notes I do not know what you mean.

[Sorrano]

And why wasn't 'Peter' banned for making a personal attack and his post removed????

Peter? As far as I am aware he has not made any personal attacks. This is his forum, anyway.

[Roehre]

When LvB uses pieces of others in his works usually he left a note in the margin like "from Hayden's xxxx" or something similar.

Examples?

[painter_mindscapes]

This is the kind of posting that we don't need. You are sounding like a troll.

And why wasn't 'Philip' banned for making a personal attack and his post removed????