Turkish March in 4th Mvmt of 9th Symphony - What was Beethoven Thinking?

[Peter]

I think the march is highly inspired with a wonderful counter melody in the tenor - nobody criticised Haydn for using cymbals, triangles and tambourines in his symphony no.100.

[Michael]

I can't find the actual book (in fact I can't find anything this morning, including my own head) but the march section of the finale was described as Beethoven taking the music "outdoors". The beginning of the march does seem to suggest an army of musicians in the distance and gradually coming closer. The music has been described as "military" but why can it not be a huge outdoor celebration? The music had reached such a point of ecstacy with the mighty "Gott!" that he had to bring it down to earth for a while before venturing into the sublime again with the "Seid umschlungen". (Pedants: ignore my spelling). Nobody quite knew how to mix the sacred and profane like our jolly old B.

[Peter]

I came across the following in the NYTimes Dec. 24, 2007:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/24/op...pagewanted=all

Googling the subject, I also came across:
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/2006/200...er/021363.html

Seems to be quite a few references online to Beethoven's introduction of the Turkish March in the 4th movement of the 9th Symphony, and no small amount of consternation on account of it. And now, I am confused myself. Has anyone come across this issue before? And if so, what is anyone's opinion of it?

Yes it is the last movement that has always come in for the greatest criticism yet paradoxically it is the movement best known and loved! Honestly I think the march is splendid and highly original in its context.

[PDG]

There is just so much self-depracation in Beethoven. I think the Turkish fashion had gone out with Mozart, but Beethoven's humour got the better of him, and the "carnival" aspect of which you speak is about spot on and in keeping with his general feeling of artistic freedom and cocking a snook. The 9th is the greatest symphony of all time, but what spurred Beethoven on to finish it (its gestation period was unusually long) was not "his art" but the promise of £25 from the Royal London Society...

[al1432]

I came across the following in the NYTimes Dec. 24, 2007:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/24/op...pagewanted=all

Googling the subject, I also came across:
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/2006/200...er/021363.html

Seems to be quite a few references online to Beethoven's introduction of the Turkish March in the 4th movement of the 9th Symphony, and no small amount of consternation on account of it. And now, I am confused myself. Has anyone come across this issue before? And if so, what is anyone's opinion of it?