Butchering Mozart Operas

[Sorrano]

Reassuring Philip! How do you update a myth? Monteverdi set it in the fields of Thrace, (full of sunflowers and vineyards) and the underworld. Recreate that in a convincing way and you have a modern 'update' fine by me!

Have you not seen the movie L'Ofeo Negro (Sorry about the spelling.) It's a modern (Brazilian) version of the myth and I felt like it worked pretty good.

[Peter]

I was teasing you, Headmaster. You're quite right of course, the left wing press also has its "posturings". Please don't think that I buy into everything I read in The Guardian, I just find it the least irritating of the UK broadsheets, though I do find The Times to be my "second string" when I can't get The Grauniad (famed for its typo erros!).
Now, what about a modern, up-to-date stage setting for L'Orfeo?

Reassuring Philip! How do you update a myth? Monteverdi set it in the fields of Thrace, (full of sunflowers and vineyards) and the underworld. Recreate that in a convincing way and you have a modern 'update' fine by me!

[Quijote]

I don't understand the Sushi reference either since I thought DG was set in Seville, so you'll have to ask Laufenberg, why not oranges? Both right and left wing press are equally guilty of 'posturing' - these days I only bother with a Sunday newspaper and if you have to know, it is the Times, mainly because I enjoy the cultural magazine. I can't stand the 'posturings' of a politically correct, biased BBC labouring a trivial story ad infinitum coupled with amateurish presenters, so my daily news comes mainly online from Google headlines where I don't have people thinking for me and can formulate my own opinions in a fraction of the time they devote to inane waffle.

I was teasing you, Headmaster. You're quite right of course, the left wing press also has its "posturings". Please don't think that I buy into everything I read in The Guardian, I just find it the least irritating of the UK broadsheets, though I do find The Times to be my "second string" when I can't get The Grauniad (famed for its typo erros!).
Now, what about a modern, up-to-date stage setting for L'Orfeo?

[Peter]

So, whilst I have taken my "punishment", let's take a closer look at your posting. I can see, Headmaster, that I have exercised you somewhat, forcing you into an apoplexy of syntactical chaos (see my highlighting of your post above). I didn't quite understand the sushi in Sevilla reference though, to be honest.
A Guardian luvvie? Maybe you're right on that one! I have a fine ear for music (I believe); I also have a fine eye for the posturings of the right-wing press, and having said that I would dearly like to know what is the newspaper of your choice, but I imagine you will not satisfy me on that point. Add smiling icon.

I don't understand the Sushi reference either since I thought DG was set in Seville, so you'll have to ask Laufenberg, why not oranges? Both right and left wing press are equally guilty of 'posturing' - these days I only bother with a Sunday newspaper and if you have to know, it is the Times, mainly because I enjoy the cultural magazine. I can't stand the 'posturings' of a politically correct, biased BBC labouring a trivial story ad infinitum coupled with amateurish presenters, so my daily news comes mainly online from Google headlines where I don't have people thinking for me and can formulate my own opinions in a fraction of the time they devote to inane waffle.

[Quijote]

Anyway, back to Opera. Anybody fancy L'Orfeo? How would you update the mise en scène with that one, hey?

[Quijote]

You always takes a blatant and rather smug (left wing) political angle on the issues - having seen the equally dire results of both sides I'm generally apolitical, I couldn't care if you call it left or right or that you're a Guardian luvvie (and no I don't read the daily Mail!) - I simply don't like many modern attempts to over sensationalise and to 'update' into a different context than originally intended. Take the Laufenberg Don Giovanini that people rave about - Don Giovanni lives in a luxury apartment, eats sushi (I don't think we're in Seville) and locates his lovers with a cell phone. He justifys this stance by praising the character of Don Giovanini, he is to be admired and even envied - he says (probably correctly) that DG is a modern character who fits in with todays world of consumption, pleasure (i.e utter selfishness) and most people aspire to be like him. Progress? I don't think so and that he can revel in it shows how far we really have sunk.

So, whilst I have taken my "punishment", let's take a closer look at your posting. I can see, Headmaster, that I have exercised you somewhat, forcing you into an apoplexy of syntactical chaos (see my highlighting of your post above). I didn't quite understand the sushi in Sevilla reference though, to be honest.
A Guardian luvvie? Maybe you're right on that one! I have a fine ear for music (I believe); I also have a fine eye for the posturings of the right-wing press, and having said that I would dearly like to know what is the newspaper of your choice, but I imagine you will not satisfy me on that point. Add smiling icon.

[Quijote]

As for school, you are not alone, trust me on that one, . Interesting that your entire life is now based around school!

Yes Preston, the irony of that has not escaped me! But truly, I never liked school : having to wear the uniform, blind obedience, indoctrination, bullying (and I mean the teachers)...
My university years on the other hand were bliss.

[Preston]

As for school, you are not alone, trust me on that one, .

Interesting that your entire life is now based around school!

[Quijote]

I didn't realise you were that old! [...]

Well yes... and no. In any case, our belovèd masters dressed in black capes, we had to stand when the sadists entered the classroom. In Music class, cracked heads for false entries; in Latin class, beheadings for wrong declinaisons, in Chemistry, forced ingurgitation of sulphuric acid for not remembering the Periodic Table, and so on ...

[Peter]

I always take my punishment like a man, Headmaster. Don't forget I was a grammar school boy when corporal punishment was the norm (bloody sadists, some of my teachers were...).

I didn't realise you were that old!

I don't find it all absurd that an original opera setting can be updated to a more modern context. For example, setting Fidelio in North Korea, or some other totalitarian state, as in my view the "spirit" of the setting/libretto allows for this.

Admittedly Fidelio has a universal theme.

But I am glad to note we agree that Opera is a highly "political" genre. As I said above, if not so, it becomes "zarzuela", a surely highly enjoyable entertainment of musical and stage frippery.

Quite and I'm happy to discuss it.

[Quijote]

Glad you took your punishment in the right spirit!
I'm not against ALL modern productions as long as they respect the original context instead of a director imposing his own agenda - if people can't cope with Da Ponte and Mozart as written then don't bother, watch something else like big brother - I just think it is absurd for example to have a production set in ancient Rome 'updated' to New York! Quite frankly it's a bit of an insult to suggest that an audience can't relate to another era and has to have it explained to them in a modern way.

Nor do I have an issue with political debate in context - for example clearly 'The Marriage of Figaro' is very political, but it is in reference to pre-revolutionary France, not 21st century social issues which are of a very different order.

I can't propose for you a production to see, because I rarely go myself and because I wouldn't expect you to agree with me - why should you? What is right for you is fine by me. My own criteria would be the composer, conductor, cast, director, venue and reviews!

I always take my punishment like a man, Headmaster. Don't forget I was a grammar school boy when corporal punishment was the norm (bloody sadists, some of my teachers were...).

I don't find it all absurd that an original opera setting can be updated to a more modern context. For example, setting Fidelio in North Korea, or some other totalitarian state, as in my view the "spirit" of the setting/libretto allows for this.

But I am glad to note we agree that Opera is a highly "political" genre. As I said above, if not so, it becomes "zarzuela", a surely highly enjoyable entertainment of musical and stage frippery.

[Peter]

I stand corrected, Agnès, Headmaster, et al...
So, you don't like these modern productions. But is anyone going to answer my query above : propose me your own mise en scène for your "fave" opera(s) that would make me want to get out a bit and spend a hefty sum of money rather than stay in with the CD.

Glad you took your punishment in the right spirit!
I'm not against ALL modern productions as long as they respect the original context instead of a director imposing his own agenda - if people can't cope with Da Ponte and Mozart as written then don't bother, watch something else like big brother - I just think it is absurd for example to have a production set in ancient Rome 'updated' to New York! Quite frankly it's a bit of an insult to suggest that an audience can't relate to another era and has to have it explained to them in a modern way.

Nor do I have an issue with political debate in context - for example clearly 'The Marriage of Figaro' is very political, but it is in reference to pre-revolutionary France, not 21st century social issues which are of a very different order.

I can't propose for you a production to see, because I rarely go myself and because I wouldn't expect you to agree with me - why should you? What is right for you is fine by me. My own criteria would be the composer, conductor, cast, director, venue and reviews!

[Quijote]

I stand corrected, Agnès, Headmaster, et al...
So, you don't like these modern productions. But is anyone going to answer my query above : propose me your own mise en scène for your "fave" opera(s) that would make me want to get out a bit and spend a hefty sum of money rather than stay in with the CD.

[Peter]

Without intention of being offensive, stirring the pot, etc., I might observe that Beethoven, in his day, would have been considered to be fairly left wing, liberal, etc, considering his political views toward Napoleon at the beginning of his campaigns.

Absolutely and that's highly relevant to this forum - our own personal political views should be our own business.

[Roehre]

Without intention of being offensive, stirring the pot, etc., I might observe that Beethoven, in his day, would have been considered to be fairly left wing, liberal, etc, considering his political views toward Napoleon at the beginning of his campaigns.

Most likely.
The files the Metternich-régime compiled from the late 1810s onwards (it was not too difficult to eavesdrop Beethoven during his frequenting Viennese taverns and free houses ) show that his view mellowed a bit, but never really changed. The Konversationshefte show the same. His opinion regarding Napoleon obviously changed, but not what this Bonaparte originally stood for: liberté, égalité, fraternité.