What is Beethoven's weakest opus

[PaulD]

In a previous post, I probably exposed myself to some (deserved) criticism by admitting that I always gave the cold shoulder to Leonore/Fidelio.

Perhaps this has been done on this forum before, but I was curious to know what, as a group of Beethoven addicts, we collectively believe to be his weakest opus (excluding WoO for the moment). I guess we cannot rely on Beethoven's own opinion on his works since he disliked so many of them in retrospect. So we are on our own for this one!

[Chris]

An obvious candidate is Wellington's Victory, Op. 91. I think it's an enjoyable piece of music, and it was certainly successful for Beethoven, but it doesn't have a lot of depth.

[PaulD]

Agreed. Perhaps if we heard it on the panharmonicon for which it was originally composed, it would made a better impression on us.

[Zevy]

An obvious candidate is Wellington's Victory, Op. 91. I think it's an enjoyable piece of music, and it was certainly successful for Beethoven, but it doesn't have a lot of depth.

Ditto

[Peter]

Out of the well known works I'd say 'Fur Elise' - I simply can't endure the piece! Of the piano sonatas my least favourite is Op.10/1. I suppose when it comes to concertos the triple concerto is a candidate though I'm quite partial to it, especially the slow movement.

[Hollywood]

An obvious candidate is Wellington's Victory, Op. 91. I think it's an enjoyable piece of music, and it was certainly successful for Beethoven, but it doesn't have a lot of depth.

I love this piece but then again I have seen it performed in a way that makes it well worth a higher ranking.

Back in the mid 1970s, when I was an usher at the Hollywood Bowl, Zubin Mehta and the L.A. Philharmonic went all out and created a spectacular version of Wellington's Victory. This work needs to be seen with canons, fireworks and performers dressed up as Napoleon, Wellington and their armies marching and fighting in rhythm to the music. It was like you were transported back in time to the battle of Waterloo. A performance like this would have made Beethoven proud.

[Michael]

I suppose it would have to be "Wellington's Victory", although I also have a great affection for that piece. I used to play it to show off my stereo equipment many years ago and I converted at least one listener to "classical" music.

The incidental music for the "Ruins of Athens" and "King Stephen" are not in the top drawer but do contain some lovely pieces, and there are a few scattered items of early chamber music which have deceptively high opus numbers but these should really be included with the WoOs as the catalogue numbers were not assigned by Beethoven.
I should also include the oratorio "Christus am Olberge", although its main problem is the dodgy libretto. I believe there is an English version - not a translation - which improves the whole thing, but I have never heard it.

But, Peter, "Fur Elise"! It's a trifle but very attractive and, for some strange reason, I was well into Beethoven before I knew he was the composer. I suspect, however, that it's the bane of all piano teachers.



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[Sorrano]

Not sure how the Choral Fantasy would stack up with the weaker works; I've heard it disparaged by composition teachers, however it's one work I quite like.

[Peter]

But, Peter, "Fur Elise"! It's a trifle but very attractive and, for some strange reason, I was well into Beethoven before I knew he was the composer. I suspect, however, that it's the bane of all piano teachers.



.

Ah but it's fame and popularity far exceed its merits - there are much finer 'trifles' to be had in Beethoven's cupboard! One of the reasons it's the bane of piano teachers is that beginners imagine it to be an easy piece and consequently attempt it too soon and massacre it - the middle section alone rules it out for anyone under grade 5.

[AeolianHarp]

Ah but it's fame and popularity far exceed its merits - there are much finer 'trifles' to be had in Beethoven's cupboard! One of the reasons it's the bane of piano teachers is that beginners imagine it to be an easy piece and consequently attempt it too soon and massacre it - the middle section alone rules it out for anyone under grade 5.

As a beginner I can tell you it is not easy!

[PaulD]

I have always liked the Choral Fantasy. I usually cranck up the sound in the final few seconds when the line is repeated four times just before the piece ends. Beethoven repeats that trick also in the finale of the Emperor. Always makes an impression on me.

In the movie "Beethoven lives upstairs" (which by the way is not as bad as it sounds), the lady who owns the house starts playing Fur Elise in front of Beethoven. Beethoven does not seem too impressed and asks who wrote that piece... She says it's from him and he seems surprised and a little annoyed.

I own a CD of the violin concerto but arranged as a piano concerto (D.Barenboim). Apparently it is from Beethoven himself. It is difficult to get used to and it does not sound as inspired. Has anyone heard this before?

[AeolianHarp]

In the movie "Beethoven lives upstairs" (which by the way is not as bad as it sounds), the lady who owns the house starts playing Fur Elise in front of Beethoven. Beethoven does not seem too impressed and asks who wrote that piece... She says it's from him and he seems surprised and a little annoyed.

I love this film! It's the most accurate portrayal of Beethoven on film. I know that scene well. My fave scene is when the boy is awoken at night by water dripping onto his bed, so he sneaks upstairs and opens Beethoven's door to see Beethoven stood in only a pair of trousers with his room in a mess and sees Beethoven humming and pacing the room composing!

[Peter]

I own a CD of the violin concerto but arranged as a piano concerto (D.Barenboim). Apparently it is from Beethoven himself. It is difficult to get used to and it does not sound as inspired. Has anyone heard this before?

Yes Beethoven provided this for Clementi in London as he felt the work would have more success as a piano concerto - I agree that it pales in comparison to the original, but what is inspired are the cadenzas Beethoven provided for this version - they have been transcribed for violin.

[PaulD]

Thank you Peter for the information. I just checked the CD and it says that the cadenza is Biamonti 511 no.1). I assume it must be one of the good cadenzas so I will go back and listen to the whole piece again with a different ear.

[Peter]

Thank you Peter for the information. I just checked the CD and it says that the cadenza is Biamonti 511 no.1). I assume it must be one of the good cadenzas so I will go back and listen to the whole piece again with a different ear.

Beethoven's cadenzas were for the unusual combination of piano and timpani - they were later arranged for the violin (and timpani) by Max Rostal, Eugène Ysaÿe, Christian Tetzlaff and Wolfgang Schneiderhan. To my mind they are the best cadenzas written for the violin concerto.

For what it's worth, more recently, the violin concerto has also been arranged as a concerto for clarinet and orchestra, by Mikhail Pletnev.