How did Beethoven rank his symphonies?

[PDG]

I have certain problems with the 7th.

I feel the brilliant first movement completely dominates the whole structure. The famous "slow" movement Allegretto has such a rhythmic tread which makes whatever melody might be present almost redundant. The Scherzo has a Trio which every conductor takes far too slowly, and the Finale does little - musically - to tie together the previous movements (exhilirating though it undoubtedly is).

[Harvey]

That's an interesting listening experience there Harvey!

heh, heh, I tend to go to extremes! But the 87 CD set has great potential to make me go over the top, so I have to be very careful. I am handling it like fine wine (though I don't drink) to be sampled carefully and slowly. I haven't even spun one disk yet. But I have gone through the package and admired the cases and discs. Very nicely packaged in my opinion. The seller still has a number of these sets for $29.99 USD and it was only $3.99 shipping per set for us. If you can afford it, this is a great deal. Figure you could spend that much on three CDs or even a single Fidelio set.

[AeolianHarp]

That's an interesting listening experience there Harvey! I have Mint too Rocco ( on the netbook) but I forget which version!

[Rocco]

What's your Linux distro again?

Linux Mint 13 Maya LTS

[Harvey]

Today I did something very different. I put in a disk I recently burned that has the second movements of the first eight symphonies. Now I realize the Beethoven would not have thought that a good way to listen to his music, but I had a purpose. Realizing that slow movements were more difficult for me to appreciate I wanted to go thorough them all (except the Ninth, which slow movement I already consider one of the greatest and most beautiful of all). I hope to be able to characterize each one, and somewhat figure out which ones I prefer most. I am quickly realizing that these slow movements are not necessarily that slow and are very interesting which mitigates some of the slow feeling. It's not that I don't appreciate slow (the Sanctus of the Missa Solemenis is wonderful), but I just need to get more familiar with these slow movements. Just love this particular performance of the Sanctus.

This came on after I spent a long time evaluating symphonies 1, 2, 4, and 8 to determine my favorite of the less popular symphonies. Of those four, I picked #1 as my favorite partly because the slow movement was not all that slow.

All that on my drive to and from work, where I have live speakers vs an earbud.

Oh, but I have been very, very focused in over the last couple of weeks and on my MP3 player have done nothing but listen to the nine symphonies, in order, over and over and over. I believe I am into my ninth trip through them. I did this a couple years ago with the Ninth, listening to about 15 or so different performances over and over in rotation for probably a couple weeks or even months, the details escape me. Finally I got to where I was not appreciating the Ninth that much, then back in January, when I read Romain Rolland's book Beethoven the Creator which is focused on the Eroica, the Appassionata, and Leonora, I was compelled to put the Eroica and Appassionata on my player, then I found myself listening to the Eroica multiple times in a row (this was the Gardiner performance, a great one too). That led to all the symphonies and suddenly the Ninth was even more wonderful than it had been before, perhaps taking on a greater stature when listened to among the other symphonies.

Ah, then my 87 CD Beethoven set arrived today, but I am not going to start listening to it until I give the symphonies some more playing time, especially I have to listen to the 6th and 7th in the car to really hear them well. But the temptation is to grab the 87 CD set, run away to a room with a stereo and not come out until I have played all 87! But then people might wonder about me!

[AeolianHarp]

Well the bootlegs were not classical music. The listing said it ships from Canada, but it actually came from Argentina! The labels on the printed side of the CDs were split down the middle and mis-aligned. After that I got wise and was able to see bootleggers all over Ebay.

Sounds like you got wise to them!

I mostly let Rocco mess with the Linux stuff, he is my IT person. Can always rip CDs on my wife's Windows-based computer and transfer with a USB drive.

Yes, and he might also like those links.

Back to his symphonies-have you listened to any today?

[Harvey]

Well the bootlegs were not classical music. The listing said it ships from Canada, but it actually came from Argentina! The labels on the printed side of the CDs were split down the middle and mis-aligned. After that I got wise and was able to see bootleggers all over Ebay.

I mostly let Rocco mess with the Linux stuff, he is my IT person. Can always rip CDs on my wife's Windows-based computer and transfer with a USB drive.

[AeolianHarp]

None right now. Had a trial on Wavepad, but after so many days you are supposed to buy it. Looking for a new music editor. In fact, I just switched my home operating system to a Linux based system and found that I can't rip to wma files, which I prefer over MP3 and my player only runs those two. MP3 is poorer quality sound than wma from what I have researched on the net. So my typical 128 kbps wma will need at least a 160 kbps MP3 to be comprable, maybe 192 kbps. That takes a lot of space.

Here is my computer motto Harvey- where there's Linux there's a way!:

http://thuannvn.blogspot.co.uk/2009/...ng-ffmpeg.html

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=37793&page=3

http://askubuntu.com/questions/55352...tracks-to-mp3s

http://www.howtoforge.com/converting...-on-linux-mint

Have a read of those!
There are loads of Linux forums out there Harvey- well worth finding one and joining it as the Linux community are super helpful and many of them excellent IT geeks! I go on a Brit one, so could ask for you if you like. What player do you use? What's your Linux distro again?

P.S Amazon Cloud is another story...

I have complained to the sellers on Amazon at times and gotten refunds for bad discs. I have made cases through paypal twice and got my money back, one for no delivery and no answers to email inquiries, the other for someone sending me bootlegs of CDs.

Yeahhh.. I had a book on our dear Maestro never arrive although the seller in the USA posted it- they were so kind and gave me a refund- I ddin't even ask for one, just asked when they posted it. Bootleg CDs? That's cheeky!!!

Short of that, you bought the CD and if you can't return it keep it and see if a library or friend has the same set. If so, copy it, as you have the legal right to the music since you bough the CD--seems that way to me anyway, but I think the recording industry believes we should not even be allowed to buy a used CD (Money grubbers many of them, it seems).

Well the same conductor is on you tube...

[Harvey]

I tried it on the computer and it did the same. I did ask for a refund and felt a bit guilty, as it was less than £2, but it would cost me twice as much to send it off to the CD repair people! So it will get recycled.


That is very bad CD processing or whatever you call it! What music editor do you use? Audacity?

None right now. Had a trial on Wavepad, but after so many days you are supposed to buy it. Looking for a new music editor. In fact, I just switched my home operating system to a Linux based system and found that I can't rip to wma files, which I prefer over MP3 and my player only runs those two. MP3 is poorer quality sound than wma from what I have researched on the net. So my typical 128 kbps wma will need at least a 160 kbps MP3 to be comprable, maybe 192 kbps. That takes a lot of space.

I have complained to the sellers on Amazon at times and gotten refunds for bad discs. I have made cases through paypal twice and got my money back, one for no delivery and no answers to email inquiries, the other for someone sending me bootlegs of CDs. Short of that, you bought the CD and if you can't return it keep it and see if a library or friend has the same set. If so, copy it, as you have the legal right to the music since you bough the CD--seems that way to me anyway, but I think the recording industry believes we should not even be allowed to buy a used CD (Money grubbers many of them, it seems).

[AeolianHarp]

You should be able to get a refund. I have had discs that would play on some computers and not others.

I tried it on the computer and it did the same. I did ask for a refund and felt a bit guilty, as it was less than £2, but it would cost me twice as much to send it off to the CD repair people! So it will get recycled.

I am dissapointed in my Gunter Wand Beethoven symphonies set in that there is at least one place where they split the tracks in the middle of a note. How careless can they be? I can fix it with a music editor for my MP3 and burned discs for playing in the car (I generally don't use the original disc to playback the music, prefering to preserve them from possible wear).

That is very bad CD processing or whatever you call it! What music editor do you use? Audacity?

[Harvey]

My CD of the 5th and 6th arrived this morning- only it is faulty and sticks and stops towards the end of the fourth movement of the 5th...

You should be able to get a refund. I have had discs that would play on some computers and not others.

I am dissapointed in my Gunter Wand Beethoven symphonies set in that there is at least one place where they split the tracks in the middle of a note. How careless can they be? I can fix it with a music editor for my MP3 and burned discs for playing in the car (I generally don't use the original disc to playback the music, prefering to preserve them from possible wear).

[AeolianHarp]

My CD of the 5th and 6th arrived this morning- only it is faulty and sticks and stops towards the end of the fourth movement of the 5th...

[AeolianHarp]

It's when it starts happening in the street that it becomes a problem, I guess.....

No, that doesn't tend to arise.

Don't worry about Peter.....he's a pussycat at heart....

Hehe.

No...I really must resist....I must resist....I...I...

You know you want to...

Here's an article about the Pastorale- it seems some nitwits complained the storms and birds were "childish"..they obviously lacked heart and imagination, unlike dear Ludwig!

I agree with the statement below by Donald Tovey at the end of the document.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21103696967253

[PDG]

Seen loads of men's squirrel you tube videos!

No...I really must resist....I must resist....I...I...

[PDG]

Yeahhhh...it's not the first time I have been mistaken for a man on a forum! It happens quite a lot.

It's when it starts happening in the street that it becomes a problem, I guess.....

Don't worry about Peter.....he's a pussycat at heart....