Beethoven vs. Mozart - VOTE HERE!

[HaydnFan]

Originally posted by Preston:
HaydnFan, I still don't see how you can believe that a gangster is a true genius. I believe he can posess genius like qualities, maybe thoughts of growing up and being abused and how God would feel about that, but he is no real genius in my opinion! I absolutely hate gangsters.

Well, we obviously have two very different definitions of genius then...as I said, according to Webster (the English language), genius has basically nothing to do with a person's morality.

Preston, I hate people who commit these terrible crimes as much as you do but it does not disqualify them from acclaim and intelligence. To use an example, by all accounts two terrible killers, Ted Bundy and Timothy McVeigh were both extremely bright individuals but were obviously very troubled.

The point is that it doesn't matter if someone is virtuous or not, they can still be considered a genius in the strictest sense of the word.

That is fine if you don't consider them to be geniuses then, no problem for me. But at least understand how the rest of the world would define them.

[Preston]

"The Rest of the World", you mean all the people worshiping the devil, all the people starving, all the different religions, all the people in poverty, all the sinners, the killers, the good people, the people who believe in zombies, the small tribes that stand on poles for hours, etc. There are a lot of different people in this world.

I feel that people that suffer from mental issues can be geniuses also. I feel that people that murder people can be geniuses, but not someone who spends the majority of their life being stupid, bad, etc. Someone who wanted revenge or hated someone and murdered them could be geniuses, in my opinion.

This has escalated into something far more than what I want.

Kind Regards HaydnFan,
Preston

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"But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music- it can meet no evil fate." LVB

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 10-31-2006).]

[HaydnFan]

Yeah, this has gone on too long...

...however, by the "rest of the world", I mean the English speaking world who define "genius" as I have stated...as far as I am concerned, there is no other meaning to be derived than those which appear in the dictionary unless we want to start making up words and definitions for them...

...but anyway, I think we can agree that Caravaggio is a genius as an artist but definitely not a genius as a man....can you agree to that?

And for the record, I think Caravaggio's art has the same emotional intensity and poetic heart as Beethoven's music.

[HaydnFan]

Let's get back to the topic of music...

So, referring to a question I had posted above, should an artist be separated from his or her art? What do you think?

[Preston]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
Let's get back to the topic of music...

So, referring to a question I had posted above, should an artist be separated from his or her art? What do you think?

I feel it depends on how truthful they are to and with their art.


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"But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music- it can meet no evil fate." LVB

[HaydnFan]

Not sure what you mean by truthful to and with their art but what do you think in the case of Wagner and potentially Liszt and Chopin?

The first was and the last two were by some accounts, anti-semitic...should we then throw their music in the garbage because they had a terrible personal hate or should we ignore that and pay attention only to their music, itself?

[HaydnFan]

By the way, I am not trying to "trap" you into an answer...this topic does not have a right answer, it is one that is ever being debated in the art world.

Tendency would be to say no, an artist's personal behaviour / beliefs should not affect our judgement on his or her art but then how could we possibly explain and appreciate the works of van Gogh?

[Preston]

I will possibly clarify myself later, about should artists be seperated from his or her art. Gotta get FFXII, soon!

I also wanted to mention which I should have earlier, that I think there are many people in the world with a deeper understanding towards life. Then there are many that don't, in my opinion. Sadly, there are "wasters of life and limb".

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"But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music- it can meet no evil fate." LVB

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 10-31-2006).]

[PDG]

Originally posted by Preston:
I absolutely hate gangsters.

Yes, down with gangsters. Let's ban them from the forum!

[PDG]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:


And for the record, I think Caravaggio's art has the same emotional intensity and poetic heart as Beethoven's music.

And the moon is made of cheese. I think I've heard everything now....(No wonder Rod's staying away). No other art form, whether Shakespeare (who didn't exist, by the way), paintings, sculpture, etc. can have the power to move us as deeply as great music because music moves. It is not a static thing where all the pleasure can be assimilated or enjoyed at once.



[This message has been edited by PDG (edited 10-31-2006).]

[HaydnFan]

PDG, just because static visual art cannot move you in that way, it does not mean that it cannot affect the rest of the world...you should speak for yourself.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
Were you referring to the buffoonery part or the initials?

That's PDG not PDQ, Ha!



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[PDG]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
PDG, just because static visual art cannot move you in that way, it does not mean that it cannot affect the rest of the world...you should speak for yourself.

Hello HaydnFan. It affects the rest of the world?! How do you know? Do you get the same, fulfilling emotional reaction when looking at a statue as you do from hearing a Beethoven symphony? Or looking at a painting inspires you the way that a Beethoven string quartet does? If so, then you are indeed a very lucky chap. Or maybe you are missing the point about Beethoven (no offence).

[HaydnFan]

Yes, looking at a painting or sculpture does have the power to move me as a Beethoven symphony or quartet does and I am not the only one...again, you are suggesting that just because you don't experience this, you cannot contemplate how others do.

I have studied visual art amongst other individuals who feel the same way (many many artists and art lovers have the very same feelings). Perhaps it is a world you are not used to and there is no problem with that. But please do not act like I am unusual in any way ie. "the moon is made of cheese..." just because you personally, do not feel the same for "static" art.

And by the way, with regards to statues, perhaps the most "static" of art, art historians will tell you that many of the works of Bernini are anything but static.

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
And the moon is made of cheese. I think I've heard everything now....(No wonder Rod's staying away). No other art form, whether Shakespeare (who didn't exist, by the way), paintings, sculpture, etc. can have the power to move us as deeply as great music because music moves. It is not a static thing where all the pleasure can be assimilated or enjoyed at once.

[This message has been edited by PDG (edited 10-31-2006).]

There are plenty of people who are not moved by music at all, but weep copiously at the sight of a great statue - I have seen this actually happen!

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'Man know thyself'