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**HaydnFan** · 10-28-2006, 07:07 AM

Well I completely disagree with you on both levels...Mozart's music is indeed, serious...and his personality, as everyone keeps telling you, is not what you see in Amadeus. Of course, Mozart enjoyed the odd rude joke but I'm sure Beethoven did as well.

If what you mean by "serious" is something completely different than let me know but as far as I am concerned, Mozart's music is very serious. Most musicians will tell you that there is nothing "light" about his musical techniques.

**Preston** · 10-28-2006, 07:21 AM

I feel that Mozart was nothing like they portrayed him in Amadeus. I feel that Mozart was serious. Not as serious as Beethoven though. There are many people in life who are not as serious as the next. Some people feel they are serious, but are not and vice-versa. My point is that there are all different kinds of people and lives being lived on this earth and beyond.

Do you have any idea what Beethoven suffered through in his life? It is far past my level of thought. I feel the things Beethoven went throught are things that Mozart couldn't imagine. Deafness, suicide, madness, paranoia, etc. Even Beethoven called some of Mozart's works, silly.

As of now I can find peace in Mozart's music.

I feel that Pink Floyd's The Wall is more serious than anything Mozart wrote (not musically better though, although The Wall blows me away), except in his last years, works like, Ave Verum Corpus, Requiem, etc. And Beethoven was far more serious then The Wall. And please don't say that Pink Floyd's The Wall isn't serious, because it deals with some very serious issues. Like insanity, madness, being crazy, light, God, etc., and the music captures the feelings almost perfect. And believe me, I am not at all saying that those are the only things serious in life. I feel that life (nature), living, peace, sanity, etc. are very serious, also.

These are just my feelings. I don't want to talk about it anymore. We all have our different interpretations of their personalities.

Kind Regards,
Preston
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"But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music- it can meet no evil fate." LVB

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 10-28-2006).]

**Peter** · 10-28-2006, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Preston:
These are just my feelings. I don't want to talk about it anymore. We all have our different interpretations of their personalities.

Kind Regards,
Preston

This is true and even musicians as great and serious as Chopin, Britten and Tchaikovsky preferred Mozart to Beethoven!

It really is a matter of personal taste and I prefer not to set them up in competition as both are supreme composers on the highest level - it's not as though we're comparing Beethoven with Andrew Lloyd-Webber or Tony Hatch!

Mozart wrote music of frivolity but also great profundity and perhaps no work better captures that polar mix than the one you're listening to, The Magic flute which I think has some of the sublimest music ever written - the 3 boys trio and Isis und Osiris for example. Listen to his G minor quintet or the slow movement of the A major piano concerto K.488 and you'll know just how serious and profound he can be!

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'Man know thyself'

**Joy** · 10-28-2006, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Peter:
This is true and even musicians as great and serious as Chopin, Britten and Tchaikovsky preferred Mozart to Beethoven!

It really is a matter of personal taste and I prefer not to set them up in competition as both are supreme composers on the highest level - it's not as though we're comparing Beethoven with Andrew Lloyd-Webber or Tony Hatch!

Mozart wrote music of frivolity but also great profundity and perhaps no work better captures that polar mix than the one you're listening to, The Magic flute which I think has some of the sublimest music ever written - the 3 boys trio and Isis und Osiris for example. Listen to his G minor quintet or the slow movement of the A major piano concerto K.488 and you'll know just how serious and profound he can be!

I agree. The A Major is very profound. Also didn't Tchaikovsky refer to Mozart as the 'musical Christ'?

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited 10-28-2006).]

**Sorrano** · 10-29-2006, 12:22 AM

Yesterday, KBAQ presented the Magnificat from the Solemn Vespers and I have not heard anything more serious and beautiful than this except maybe from his requiem. Mozart can be as deep and profound as any other composer.

**Preston** · 10-29-2006, 12:28 AM

Yes, he did. Although, he refered to Wagner and Brahms as mediocrities. That just shows you how different people have different opinions. While at the same time Wagner said (which I may have read on this forum) that he, Beethoven, and Liszt were the greatest composers to ever live. Tchaikovsky also said that he admired the greatness of Beethoven's works but that he did not love him.

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"But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music- it can meet no evil fate." LVB

**Preston** · 10-29-2006, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Sorrano:
Yesterday, KBAQ presented the Magnificat from the Solemn Vespers and I have not heard anything more serious and beautiful than this except maybe from his requiem. Mozart can be as deep and profound as any other composer.

Sorrano, have you heard "Lick my A**hole Until it is Beautifully Clean". I heard that he wrote as serious of music to that as he did the Requiem from several people.
http://213.188.106.66/23h17.mp3

Please do not think I am knocking Mozart. His flute and harp concerto is like warm wind to my soul.

------------------
"But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music- it can meet no evil fate." LVB

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 10-28-2006).]

**HaydnFan** · 10-29-2006, 04:34 AM

Preston, also keep in mind that Mozart lived in an age where the composer was still largely considered to be a servant...Mozart, tot a great extent, wrote the music that his patrons wanted him to write and more often than not, this music was frivilous and lacking in the substance and meaning we hear in Beethoven.

Beethoven on the other hand was perhaps the first composer to be considered an artist and even though he too, had patrons, he was more free to pursue what he wanted and write the music he wanted.

**Preston** · 10-29-2006, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
Preston, also keep in mind that Mozart lived in an age where the composer was still largely considered to be a servant.

Only by nobility and people who didn't know what music could be, I believe?

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"But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music- it can meet no evil fate." LVB

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 10-29-2006).]

**HaydnFan** · 10-29-2006, 06:47 AM

Well of course...we live in a different age now and view all of these individuals much differently.

In that day and age, the composer of the court was no better than the cook.

**Peter** · 10-29-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Preston:
Sorrano, have you heard "Lick my A**hole Until it is Beautifully Clean". I heard that he wrote as serious of music to that as he did the Requiem from several people.

That Mozart enjoyed vulgar jokes in his letters (common to the whole Mozart family) does not detract from the fact he also showed great musical insight in these letters or that he wrote sublime music - indeed it shows the all too human side of genius. A few examples - Gesualdo murdered his wife, Carravagio was a violent thug wanted for murder and Bernini who is responsible for much of Baroque Rome beat his brother to a pulp and had a servant slash his mistresses face beyond recognition. Wagner wrote the most contemptible rubbish about the Jews and Beethoven frequently indulged in violent rages over the most petty things.

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'Man know thyself'

**Sorrano** · 10-30-2006, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by Preston:
Sorrano, have you heard "Lick my A**hole Until it is Beautifully Clean". I heard that he wrote as serious of music to that as he did the Requiem from several people.
http://213.188.106.66/23h17.mp3

Please do not think I am knocking Mozart. His flute and harp concerto is like warm wind to my soul.

I have not heard the piece you mention. Nevertheless, regardless of what other works he might have written of whatever type, vulgar or not, I was deeply impressed by the depth of the Magnifacat that I did listen to.

**Preston** · 10-30-2006, 09:18 AM

The link that I posted is the link to the song. The link is safe.

Here is the link to the song: http://213.188.106.66/23h17.mp3

It reminds me of a gregorian chant. You must think how serious monks are and then comes Mozart writing a song possibly mocking the style and having them sing, "Lick my...".

Preston

------------------
"But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music- it can meet no evil fate." LVB

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 10-30-2006).]

**Peter** · 10-30-2006, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Preston:
The link that I posted is the link to the song. The link is safe.

Here is the link to the song: http://213.188.106.66/23h17.mp3

It reminds me of a gregorian chant. You must think how serious monks are and then comes Mozart writing a song possibly mocking the style and having them sing, "Lick my...".

Preston

This simply shows he had a damn good sense of humour as does the very clever Ein Musikalischer Spass K.522. Beethoven indulged in similar things (not perhaps quite as vulgar though) with his canons and musical quips, this doesn't make him frivolous any more than it does Mozart. When you've just finished the G minor quintet or the 9th symphony you probably feel like letting off some steam and having some wicked fun!

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'Man know thyself'

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