Fragility of Sound System...

[euphony131]

So glad to see Rod taking over and twisting every thread into a brutal cariacature of what was intended...

Sigh...enuff said.

<font color="red">A little too much, I think, so I edited it. Everyone knows how Rod is, and if it gets to you, it's best to just ignore it. Posting messages about it are only going to make things worse. Thanks.

Chris</font>

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 02-16-2001).]

[euphony131]

-- Everyone knows how Rod is, and if it gets to you, it's best to just ignore it.
Chris</font>

What's his problem exactly? Momma not give him enuff toys to play with when he was a kid? If he's gonna continue to be this condemning and vitriolic than you can't blame some of us for wanting to "Fight Fire with Fire." My stance is simply "Let's agree to disagree and go on with our lives." whereas Rod's seems to be "I'm God, You're Sh*t and I will POUND that into you!" Is that fair? Whose really being more judgemental?

PS -- I don't think I'm alone in this.

[Chris]

I don't blame you at all, and I'm sure you're not alone, but you know very well that challenging him like that will do absolutely no good and only create problems. As far as I can tell, Rod will never change. If you just can't get along with him, pretend his messages don't exist. If you really feel that something needs to be said about it, e-mail him. What else is there to do?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Chris:
I don't blame you at all, and I'm sure you're not alone, but you know very well that challenging him like that will do absolutely no good and only create problems. As far as I can tell, Rod will never change. If you just can't get along with him, pretend his messages don't exist. If you really feel that something needs to be said about it, e-mail him. What else is there to do?

[chrisg]

Damn, and things were going so well.

I think we should all understand that a board like this is all about opinions - and that it should not be necessary to preface every comment with IMHO, IMO, or any variation thereof. The only thing that bothers me are statements that insult another member by proclaiming an opinion wrong. Facts can be wrong, none of us have wrong opionions, tastes, preferences, ... whatever.

IMO, nothing objectionable is going on here. IMHO, e131, you should relax a bit. Try Mozart - very nice. Just MHO of course. That's really two opionions isn't it? Also, IMHO, Twain's famous quote about Wagner's music applies equally well to Mahler. "His music is better than it sounds." I have tried very hard to learn to love Mahler, and just don't get it. That's my problem, so Mahler lovers, please don't be offended, it's just MHO. Actually, I think Mahler really sucks, and... oh, sorry, that's one of those demeaning statements that is insulting to other members, so I won't say it. OK?

It is also my opinion (ISAMO?) that this group is better off with Rod contributing his opinions, even if they're NSH (not so humble.) Oh, and Luis, it's nice to see you back.

Back to Shostokovich I go. He doesn't suck.

IMHO of course.

cg

[Suzie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter:
[B]I think it rather presumptive and arrogant of anyone to think they can improve on Beethoven ! I presume by 'qualitative' you mean you wish Mahler had completely reorchestrated certain passages - why and to what purpose ?

I saw what I think was a new video of Mahlers reorchestration of the 9th, hosted by, of all people, Patty Smith and she was terribly excited. Who said those were french horns? I thought he added 20 trumpets in the 3rd movement and it was awful! I don't think he did much to the other 3 movements. He was attempting to adjust the modern orchestra for the piece. Waste 'o time.

[Suzie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by euphony131:
[B]So glad to see Rod taking over and twisting every thread into a brutal cariacature of what was intended...

Sigh...enuff said.

<font color="red">A little too much, I think, so I edited it. Everyone knows how Rod is, and if it gets to you, it's best to just ignore it. Posting messages about it are only going to make things worse. Thanks.

Chris</font>

I am so sick of this! Listen, as an elder on this forum, I feel entitled to provide a lecture, much as the one I provide routinely to my son. On this forum, as in school, as in work, their are all sorts of people. These same personality types are ubiquitous and will be for the rest of your life. Learn NOW to get along. A sense of humor goes a long way. An ability to determine which fight to pick is crucial, because we can't be fighting over everything, can we? We got vitriol here in buckets all over the place! Let's all 'chill' shall we? Thank you and goodnight!

[Peter]

Common Sense from Suz and Chrisg - Now an end to this please - personal attacks on members will not be allowed in the forum. If you have a complaint, contact the person concerned or the moderators directly. Thank-you.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well the only work by Handel I'm aware of that Mozart retouched is Messiah - he probably did so in order to stimulate interest in a composer who only a few decades after his death was considered old hat and hardly ever performed. At least Mozart thought Handel worth bothering with - as did Haydn who was inspired to write his Oratorios after hearing a performance of Messiah in London.

I believe M 'retouched' rather more than Messiah. Beethoven became even more interested in Handel, yet left the scores alone, realising that they were perfect as they were. I suggest Beethoven had the greater power of judgement than the other composers inquestion (boy, I hope this radical statement doesn't pi** people off!).


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by euphony131:
What's his problem exactly? Momma not give him enuff toys to play with when he was a kid? If he's gonna continue to be this condemning and vitriolic than you can't blame some of us for wanting to "Fight Fire with Fire." My stance is simply "Let's agree to disagree and go on with our lives." whereas Rod's seems to be "I'm God, You're Sh*t and I will POUND that into you!" Is that fair? Whose really being more judgemental?

PS -- I don't think I'm alone in this.

Why am I getting all the grief? Peter Peter inferred Mahler's actions were presumptive and arrogant yet he gets away with it!!!

I suggest my detractors should do this place a favour and occasionally come up with a posting that has some substance to it, instead of winging and whining at every opportunity. If I say Mahler was responsible for some fundamental errors of judgement it is because I AM ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. If some of you lack the judgement to understand this don't take it out on me!



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Why am I getting all the grief? Peter Peter inferred Mahler's actions were presumptive and arrogant yet he gets away with it!!!

Must be my natural charm !




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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I believe M 'retouched' rather more than Messiah. Beethoven became even more interested in Handel, yet left the scores alone, realising that they were perfect as they were. I suggest Beethoven had the greater power of judgement than the other composers inquestion (boy, I hope this radical statement doesn't pi** people off!).

Well you'll have to justify that Rod and tell me which other Handel works Mozart retouched - am I not right in saying Beethoven didn't receive Handel's complete works until he was on his death bed ? - a bit late to make any changes ! A flippant remark I know.


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'Man know thyself'

[PDG]

[quote]Originally posted by Suzie:
[b]

Originally posted by euphony131:
So glad to see Rod taking over and twisting every thread into a brutal cariacature of what was intended...
Sigh...enuff said.
I am so sick of this! Listen, as an elder on this forum, I feel entitled to provide a lecture, much as the one I provide routinely to my son. On this forum, as in school, as in work, their are all sorts of people. These same personality types are ubiquitous and will be for the rest of your life. Learn NOW to get along. A sense of humor goes a long way. An ability to determine which fight to pick is crucial, because we can't be fighting over everything, can we? We got vitriol here in buckets all over the place! Let's all 'chill' shall we? Thank you and goodnight!

Suzie,

I`ve been so busy that I missed out on the earlier group hug. Can I have mine now please? In my absence, it`s good to see that the old place hasn`t changed a bit! I am polishing my crash helmet in preparation for my full return to the fray in a few days. God bless us, every one

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Peter (PDG)

[Rod]

Originally posted by Rod:

Originally posted by Peter:
Well you'll have to justify that Rod and tell me which other Handel works Mozart retouched - am I not right in saying Beethoven didn't receive Handel's complete works until he was on his death bed ? - a bit late to make any changes ! A flippant remark I know.

The others works I have so far discovered:

Alexanders Feast
Acis & Galatea
Ode to St Cecilia's Day

I've seen today a recording of A&G by 'Handel/Mozart' just in case you need a little more evidence. I can look further into the matter if you wish.

Beethoven was familiar with enough of Handel's music to announce Handel was the greatest composer at least 10 years before he read those volumes. I don't think B would have needed the complete works collection to have come to that conclusion. Do you seriously believe that if he had got his hands on the volumes earlier we would now have CDs entitled 'Handel/Beethoven's Water Music'? How come we don't have and 'Mozart/Beethoven' concertos or quartets?

[Peter]

That's interesting Rod - I wasn't actually doubting you, I was just curious.

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'Man know thyself'