Butchering Mozart Operas

[Agnes Selby]

Da Ponte likewise did not admire the nobility and the political order of the day. Mozart found more equality within the Masonic Order. However, hopes for equality never really
materialised only the "masters" had changed.

[Sorrano]

Without intention of being offensive, stirring the pot, etc., I might observe that Beethoven, in his day, would have been considered to be fairly left wing, liberal, etc, considering his political views toward Napoleon at the beginning of his campaigns.

[Peter]

I did. It struck me as the usual run-of-the-mill conservative stance, even though I may not particularly admire Guth's oeuvre in general.
I also note that the Right Wing Watch organisation takes a dim view of the City Journal's owners, these being The Manhattan Institute for Political Research, an undoubtedly conservative think-tank.

You always takes a blatant and rather smug (left wing) political angle on the issues - having seen the equally dire results of both sides I'm generally apolitical, I couldn't care if you call it left or right or that you're a Guardian luvvie (and no I don't read the daily Mail!) - I simply don't like many modern attempts to over sensationalise and to 'update' into a different context than originally intended. Take the Laufenberg Don Giovanini that people rave about - Don Giovanni lives in a luxury apartment, eats sushi (I don't think we're in Seville) and locates his lovers with a cell phone. He justifys this stance by praising the character of Don Giovanini, he is to be admired and even envied - he says (probably correctly) that DG is a modern character who fits in with todays world of consumption, pleasure (i.e utter selfishness) and most people aspire to be like him. Progress? I don't think so and that he can revel in it shows how far we really have sunk.

[Agnes Selby]

Err..... yes, I think Philip got his tentacles in a twist Agnes!
We must make allowances.

Thank you, Megan, I will keep it mind.

[Quijote]

As to "shock, horror, scandal", I was of course referring to the tone of the article you posted.
As a (struggling and apparently recovering) formalist, I would clearly prefer opera to be conceived as a bunch of people singing and acting on the stage to orchestral accompaniment that can be reduced to Schenkerian principles of functional harmony.

[Quijote]

That is interesting. I thought this was all about opera and not about right or left wing politics. And, what "shock, horror, scandal..." posts of mine are you referring to? I don't post here often, so I can't imagine what posts you are referring to.

I am always interesting, Agnès. But you must forgive me, I am not very bright, for I always thought that any opera had a certain social context (be that 18th, 19th or 20th century... and beyond) that "highlighted" (shall we say) a given political milieu or social issue. If not, opera is just "zarzuela", no?

[Megan]

Err..... yes, I think Philip got his tentacles in a twist Agnes!
We must make allowances.

[Agnes Selby]

Hmm, the usual "Headmaster" response, which is perhaps a reflection [or refraction?] (via one of the other sides of the prism) of my own. I haven't seen the production in question (I have only read the article proposed by Agnès), so perhaps I had better keep schtum, so to speak.
In any case, I must admit to taking a certain pleasure in reading the usual "shock, horror, scandal..." tone of such postings à la Selby.

That is interesting. I thought this was all about opera and not about
right or left wing politics. And, what "shock, horror, scandal..." posts of
mine are you referring to? I don't post here often, so I can't imagine
what posts you are referring to.

[Quijote]

I'm not at all surprised Agnes - what matters to these people is their own agenda (usually politically motivated), certainly not Mozart. They think they are so clever the more they try to shock you, well I'm not shocked, only amazed that people actually will pay a lot of money to watch the tripe.

Hmm, the usual "Headmaster" response, which is perhaps a reflection [or refraction?] (via one of the other sides of the prism) of my own. I haven't seen the production in question (I have only read the article proposed by Agnès), so perhaps I had better keep schtum, so to speak.
In any case, I must admit to taking a certain pleasure in reading the usual "shock, horror, scandal..." tone of such postings à la Selby.

[Quijote]

Please read:
http://www.city-journal.org/2011/bc0824hm.html

I did. It struck me as the usual run-of-the-mill conservative stance, even though I may not particularly admire Guth's oeuvre in general.
I also note that the Right Wing Watch organisation takes a dim view of the City Journal's owners, these being The Manhattan Institute for Political Research, an undoubtedly conservative think-tank.

[Quijote]

[...]I prefer to listen to operas at home, and imagine myself the place where it all is happening according to the instructions in the score.
I almost would concur with Boulez: burn down those opera houses

Bien dit, Pierre. Anyway, I note there are strong feelings out there regarding the various mises en scène. I really have no comment about whether or not these are "butcherings", but it strikes me that they keep the newspaper reviewers in employment and keep the operas in the public forum and prove that the opera culture is alive and kicking.
May I ask you all to suggest your own mises en scène for your preferred opera(s)? Let's start with Beethoven : Fidelio. Propose me a new (and hopefully original but not pornographic) stage setting that would make me want to part with in excess of 80+€ rather than stay in and put on the CD.

[Agnes Selby]

I myself am a purest when it comes to operas. For example, I enjoy watching a Mozart opera performed in the original language as well as in the costumes of the period. Here in Austria there have been more opera performances where they have brought these operas into the 21st century, both in costumes as well as in the opera situations being acted out on stage. I personally can't watch these updated opera performances, but than that's just me. Some people actually like these versions and more power to them. But give me a 1791 version of Mozart's Die Zauberflöte and I'll be very happy indeed.

You are not alone, and although I don't mind the translation of the text, I do not like the "modern" adaptations.

[Hollywood]

I myself am a purest when it comes to operas. For example, I enjoy watching a Mozart opera performed in the original language as well as in the costumes of the period. Here in Austria there have been more opera performances where they have brought these operas into the 21st century, both in costumes as well as in the opera situations being acted out on stage. I personally can't watch these updated opera performances, but than that's just me. Some people actually like these versions and more power to them. But give me a 1791 version of Mozart's Die Zauberflöte and I'll be very happy indeed.

[Chris]

I hope directors will eventually realize that most people don't WANT to see operas like this. In the end, it's pointless, because if it's pornography, violence, and sickness you want, there are "better" places to get it anyway. Leave the music alone!

[Sorrano]

I think it was earlier this year, but there was a production of Wagner's Ring at Bayreuth that was controversial. Fortunately, I was only able to listen as this was on the radio. Being clever is one thing but trying to be clever via shock is not the same.