Opus 31/#3

[Joy]

I heard Opus 31#3 (Piano Sonata #18) on the radio and they were discussing that it was nicknamed 'The Hunt'. Does anyone know why it was called this and by whom? I don't think Beethoven named it this.

[Peter]

Well the galloping 6/8 finale is the reason for that - it certainly isn't the official name though of this sonata which is simply referred to as Op.31 no.3. Beethoven didn't name it, nor as far as I'm aware did the publisher, so it is probably just a nickname some people attach to it.

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'Man know thyself'

[PDG]

The Fox's favourite sonata - Op.31, no.3! Love that funky 2nd mvt. A curiously gloomy slow mvt, though; reminds me of the melody of The Seekers' The Carnival Is Over. Hmmmm.....

[This message has been edited by PDG (edited 07-11-2002).]

[Joy]

You're right the slow mm is rather gloomy sounding. But the finale is different than anything I've heard before. Really a good rythym. You don't hear this one too often.

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited 07-11-2002).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Joy:
You're right the slow mm is rather gloomy sounding. But the finale is different than anything I've heard before. Really a good rythym. You don't hear this one too often.

Gloomy? - it must be your recordings! I had to check the copy despite having performed the whole sonata and taught it several times, just to make sure I wasn't going senile! It isn't even a slow movement but a glorious minuet and trio and should be taken at a moderate pace - the trio is often played slower than the minuet and this may be the problem, it should be taken at the same speed.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

I think this is a piece that is rarely performed to any satisfactory level, I don't think pianists generally know what to do with this piece. That being said I've got a fantastic recording by Paul Komen on Globe records (fortepiano of course), but I haven't heard a single other recording I like!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 07-11-2002).]

[PDG]

Originally posted by Peter:
Gloomy? - it must be your recordings! I had to check the copy despite having performed the whole sonata and taught it several times, just to make sure I wasn't going senile! It isn't even a slow movement but a glorious minuet and trio.....

Of course you're not going senile, Doris, but "glorious" is a bit OTT!

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:

I think this is a piece that is rarely performed to any satisfactory level, I don't think pianists generally know what to do with this piece. That being said I've got a fantastic recording by Paul Komen on Globe records (fortepiano of course), but I haven't heard a single other recording I like!

Have you heard Lazaar Berman's recording of this? I quite like his interpretation.

And, Peter, I have to agree whole-heartedly with the term "glorious" for that 2nd movement. If that movement has a problem it is that it's too short. I can't get enough of it.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
Have you heard Lazaar Berman's recording of this? I quite like his interpretation.

And, Peter, I have to agree whole-heartedly with the term "glorious" for that 2nd movement. If that movement has a problem it is that it's too short. I can't get enough of it.

Not heard this one, but quite a few others. The first two movements are usually the problem, even for fortepianists (Badura Skoda makes a mess of them), but Komen is spot on here. the first movment is an unusual mixure of lyricism and dynamism, the scherzo is B's masterpiece in this genre if performed correctly (again great dynamism is required),


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:
Gloomy? - it must be your recordings! I had to check the copy despite having performed the whole sonata and taught it several times, just to make sure I wasn't going senile! It isn't even a slow movement but a glorious minuet and trio and should be taken at a moderate pace - the trio is often played slower than the minuet and this may be the problem, it should be taken at the same speed.

You're not going senile, Peter. To be perfectly honest, I heard this on the radio and wasn't giving it my full attention. The pianist was Aleksandar Serdar. My recording is by Bernard Roberts and I shall listen to it (and give it my full attention) later today.

[PDG]

Originally posted by Sorrano:

And, Peter, I have to agree whole-heartedly with the term "glorious" for that 2nd movement. If that movement has a problem it is that it's too short. I can't get enough of it.

The 2nd movement is certainly brilliant - I love that downward bass run with single notes where Beethoven nearly runs out of piano - but the 3rd mvt, like the slow mvt of Op.79 (sonata no.25), is gloomy; but that's not to knock it, sometimes "gloomy" creates the perfect contrast. And when one considers the wonderful optimism of the other 3 mvts, perhaps all is just as the doctor ordered.

Peter, at what pace did you take the opening allegro? - My recordings vary from 7'30" to 10'00". I like it at around 8'00".

[Rutradelusasa]

In my book of Schindler's Beethoven's biographie, I remember having read that his friends, when first heard it, said that the last movement sounded like a hunt's theme, Beethoven didn't oppose to the name and so the name stayed, even though many didn't refer to it in this name.
It was a time when people liked naming things, take the previous sonata for example. It's called "Tempest"(Op.31 N.2) and many don't know why, by that means many people also don't know what to do with this sonata, as Rod said to the N.3, and play it as they see fit to a tempest. Actually, Beethoven only replied to one read Schakespeare's Tempest play, when one asked him what was the meaning of that sonata.

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:


Peter, at what pace did you take the opening allegro? - My recordings vary from 7'30" to 10'00". I like it at around 8'00".

Well, Komen's timings are as follows:

Allegro: 7.37
Scherzo: 5.30
Menuetto: 3.40
Presto: 4.23

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by PDG:
The 2nd movement is certainly brilliant - I love that downward bass run with single notes where Beethoven nearly runs out of piano - but the 3rd mvt, like the slow mvt of Op.79 (sonata no.25), is gloomy; but that's not to knock it, sometimes "gloomy" creates the perfect contrast. And when one considers the wonderful optimism of the other 3 mvts, perhaps all is just as the doctor ordered.

Gloomy is not the word I prefer for this movement. I get a longing feeling as I listen to it, perhaps a lonely, longing feeling. When I play/listen to the slow movement of the 1st sonata I get the same feelings. Perhaps gloomy is more appropriate for the op. 10/3 slow movement--even then it still escapes that mood.

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:

Peter, at what pace did you take the opening allegro? - My recordings vary from 7'30" to 10'00". I like it at around 8'00".

Around 8 minutes - there is a really tricky passage in demisemiquavers which has to relax the tempo slightly.

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'Man know thyself'