Behind the Diabelli Variations

[BobLombard]

There seem to be nearly as many distinct 'interpretations' of the Diabellis as there are recordings of it. The extremes (that I have heard) are represented by Yudina (very serious everywhere) and Perl (lighthearted everywhere). It has been said that many of the variations are parodies of music popular at that time and played in Vienna's coffee houses; that this work was an act of defiance by Beethoven, showing a Vienna that had written him off as a once-great hasbeen that he was not yet done; that the work was a toss-off answer to Diabelli's challenge.

What was Beethoven's attitude toward the 'challenge'? About the Variations? Toward the people of Vienna at that time? How would B have played the work, if he could have?

[Rod]

My preferred recording is by Bernard Roberts on Nimbus. He plays with authority and sensitivity and always the tempi are well judged (appart from the theme itself, which I believe is supposed to be vivace but everyone plays it in a rather plodding and superficial manner).

I've heard sories before of B producing works that alledgedly mock the Viennese. I don't think he would compromise his musical professionalism by publishing something that was nothing but a cynical joke, especially if he gave it an opus number! The fact that their is much humour in the work should not raise suspicion, for this humour is often found with Beethoven, usually where you least expect it. Who was the supreme Scherzo writer!!

Diabelli himself thought the variations were the best of their kind, a natural successor to Bach's Goldberg variations. Who disagrees today? Who is qualified to call this work a 'toss off'!!??

The fact that all the other predominant composers in Vienna were contributing may have aroused B's competetive spirit at a time when he was not 'flavour of the month'. Thus one could say it was the competition he 'demolished' and not necessarily the Viennese public.

How would B have played it? I suppose with fire, wit and solemnity, as and when required!

Rod


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Hey Rod, remember that recording of the Diabelli Variations that Paul List made with Susan Halligan? You ever listen to that anymore? I think it's pretty dang good, myself. I know you're the kind of guy who generally finds one recording and sticks with it (I am too), but I thought you might have gone back to this one once in a while. What ever happened to Paul, anyway? I haven't seen him around.

[Serge]

The Variations were four years in the making, so they most certainly were a serious endeavor. Some guy named Paul Bekker said something alluding to the Var. being written for an instrument that did not and will never exist, and, to wit, the expressive range demonstrated over the 33 short pieces is incredible. These were B.'s last piano compositions, the last works written for his favorite instrument, and they do seem to provide a fitting end.

[Peter]

I think the Bagatelles Op.126 were written after the Diabelli and that they were B's final word on the piano. Interesting to note that amongst the other composers who wrote variations at Diabelli's request were Liszt and Schubert - comparisons with the Beethoven though would be very unfair !

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Hey Rod, remember that recording of the Diabelli Variations that Paul List made with Susan Halligan? You ever listen to that anymore? I think it's pretty dang good, myself. I know you're the kind of guy who generally finds one recording and sticks with it (I am too), but I thought you might have gone back to this one once in a while. What ever happened to Paul, anyway? I haven't seen him around.

Yes I still have Halligans disk. I wrote Paul a lengthy assessment of it which was polite to the extent it was untruthful. I feel her playing lacks most of the authority that Roberts has in abundance. Also some of the slow variations are way too slow even by conventional standards. The recording has more value because of the 'authentic' tuning. I don't like the sound too much either. I haven't played it for a while. I'd like to know what appeals to you in this recording.

I also have a recording by Gulda that is extremely rushed, too fast even for me. It gathers dust also. I still await a fp recording and will pay any price for it.

I don't know what has happened with Paul. Perhaps he still resides 'elswhere'. Or our mystic has found God.

Rod


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:

I think the Bagatelles Op.126 were written after the Diabelli and that they were B's final word on the piano. Interesting to note that amongst the other composers who wrote variations at Diabelli's request were Liszt and Schubert - comparisons with the Beethoven though would be very unfair !

Yes op126 are the last, and never a more heartfelt and sincere set of notes been bestowed upon the piano as these.

Yes we must not be unfair to these other men. A one-sided contest is poor sport for a gentleman.

Rod


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Yes I still have Halligans disk. I wrote Paul a lengthy assessment of it which was polite to the extent it was untruthful. I feel her playing lacks most of the authority that Roberts has in abundance. Also some of the slow variations are way too slow even by conventional standards. The recording has more value because of the 'authentic' tuning. I don't like the sound too much either. I haven't played it for a while. I'd like to know what appeals to you in this recording.

I also have a recording by Gulda that is extremely rushed, too fast even for me. It gathers dust also. I still await a fp recording and will pay any price for it.
I don't know what has happened with Paul. Perhaps he still resides 'elswhere'. Or our mystic has found God.
Rod

Well, I agree with many of your points (the slowness and so on). The reason I like it is that I have never really found a Diabelli Variations that I love. Nor have I really looked for one. It is on my list of things to buy, but it is pretty far down. I like it because it is superior to others I have heard, from what I remember of them. That plus the historical tuning makes it a good addition to my collection. When I do shop around for the "perfect" recording, it will have to be on a Steinway, not a Yamaha C7 piece of crap Because it was cheap and good compared to others, it makes a good place-holder, and so I am satisfied with it for now. I guess what I just said sounded kind of negative, so I should say that I thought some of the variations were very well done (I can't remember which ones off hand). Well, those are my reasons

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"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." - Mark Twain

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 10-26-2000).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Yes op126 are the last, and never a more heartfelt and sincere set of notes been bestowed upon the piano as these.

Yes we must not be unfair to these other men. A one-sided contest is poor sport for a gentleman.

Rod

Absolutely agree about the Bagatelles - they are superb. My comparison point with Liszt is that he was only a boy of 12 and Schubert 25 compared to the vastly more experienced and mature B in his 50's.


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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Well, I agree with many of your points (the slowness and so on). The reason I like it is that I have never really found a Diabelli Variations that I love. Nor have I really looked for one. It is on my list of things to buy, but it is pretty far down...

Not too far down I hope. Anyway, I can certainly recommend Roberts disk on Nimbus if you can find it in Elderburg! I don't know what piano he plays, but it is modern and the accoustic is ambient. This disk is on sale for £3 in HMV in Oxford St London! I have needed no other since this. You will not find the ideal version until someone who knows what they are doing records it using a Graf or Streicher instrument. Sometimes B's dynamism sounds a little grotesque or uncouth on the modern piano. On the Graf you can bash away as much as you like and the music never sounds over-the-top.

Rod


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
My comparison point with Liszt is that he was only a boy of 12 and Schubert 25 compared to the vastly more experienced and mature B in his 50's.

Whilst I had already contemplated your point, if L and S were, at that time, of a comparable age with Beethoven, I suggest my statement would have been equally valid!

Rod



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Not too far down I hope.
Rod

I'm planning to get the Cello Sonatas first. Also, I was looking into buying a complete set of Mozart Symphonies on period intruments (Academy of Ancient Music, maybe), and maybe some Handel.


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"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." - Mark Twain

[Peter]

Have you seen the recommended recordings for the 'cello sonatas on this site Chris? there are quite a few versions to choose from, including period instruments.
I'm also thinking of getting the Mozart Symphonies on period instruments - Rod must be having an effect on us !!

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Nope, I still don't like Beethoven on period instruments Mozart, however, is another story altogether.

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"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." - Mark Twain

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Nope, I still don't like Beethoven on period instruments Mozart, however, is another story altogether.

A totally illogical statement if ever I read one. I suppose if you had been around in B's time you would have been one of those describing him as 'ripe for the mad house' hearing the 7th on such instruments? Was B thinking of some fantasy modern orchestra as well as the fantasy Steinway piano?

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin