Beethoven and Mozart's last three symphonies.

[Enrique]

Did Beethoven ever hear any of Mozart's last three symphonies? I would like to know, and what better place than this to ask?

[Chris]

Beethoven certainly knew Mozart's Symphony No. 40 in G minor. Beethoven copied out 29 measures of the finale of this work into his sketchbook while working on the Fifth Symphony. You can hear the influence of the Mozart in the theme of the third movement of the Fifth.

As for the "Jupiter", the beginning of the first movement of Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 1 in C major has been pointed to as a reference to the beginning of the Mozart work.

[Enrique]

OK. Now, during Beethoven's lifetime there must have been executions of these two (or three) symphonies. Did Beethoven attended any of them?

[Peter]

OK. Now, during Beethoven's lifetime there must have been executions of these two (or three) symphonies. Did Beethoven attended any of them?

I'm not aware of any concerts Beethoven attended with these works performed - you have to remember that there was a very big demand for contemporary music and Mozart soon fell out of fashion, especially with the rising tide of Romanticism and Italian opera. With the onset of deafness Beethoven only really attended performances of his own music.

[Enrique]

But is it kown what symphonies or operas or other large scale works by Mozart Beethoven heard while he still enjoyed some hearing? I think to remember once he commented favorably about an orchestral work by Mozart during its audition.

[Peter]

But is it kown what symphonies or operas or other large scale works by Mozart Beethoven heard while he still enjoyed some hearing? I think to remember once he commented favorably about an orchestral work by Mozart during its audition.

Regarding the operas it is easier to say - he not only heard but performed in the orchestra Die Entfuhrung aus dem serail, The Marriage of Figaro and Don Giovanni.

[Roehre]

But is it kown what symphonies or operas or other large scale works by Mozart Beethoven heard while he still enjoyed some hearing? I think to remember once he commented favorably about an orchestral work by Mozart during its audition.

Beethoven heard Piano concerto no.24 in c KV491, interestingly most likely AFTER he had composed at least large trunks of the 3rd concerto in c op.37 (the opening themes of these concertos are very similar to each other).
Further it is unlikely that he would have composed a cadenza for Mozart's concerto no.20 in d KV466 (WoO 58) without having heard (and played?) the concerto himself.

Aother mozartian influence is found at the end of the quartet in A op.18/5: an evaporating ending similar to that in Mozart's quartet in A KV 464. At least -as in the 40th symphony- B must have known the score. The same applies to the beginning of the quartet in C op.59/3 and Mozart's in C KV465 "Dissonance".

Don Giovanni -with a libretto which B found immoral- was the source of the La ci darem la mano variations (WoO 28), but also of a Don Giovanni quote in the Diabelli variations.

[Enrique]

Further it is unlikely that he would have composed a cadenza for Mozart's concerto no.20 in d KV466 (WoO 58) without having heard (and played?) the concerto himself.

I rejoice Beethoven heard, if he really did, the concerto in D minor. It is so tempestuous, revolutionary, romantic. These are words I take out of my head as I write. And perhaps, then, from what you say, he would have listened to his finest opera, also in D minor. Thanks for your remark.

[Peter]

I rejoice Beethoven heard, if he really did, the concerto in D minor. It is so tempestuous, revolutionary, romantic. These are words I take out of my head as I write. And perhaps, then, from what you say, he would have listened to his finest opera, also in D minor. Thanks for your remark.

As I mentioned in a thread above he performed Don Giovanni in the orchestra at Bonn.

[Enrique]

You're right. I had forgotten.