Grosse Fugue

[Chris]

I am looking forward to seeing the work live in just a few hours - I will report on the experience!

[Sorrano]

Would you describe it as pleasant or unpleasant? Peaceful or not? Dark and peaceful? Light and peaceful? Dark and painful? Light and painful? Etc.

None of these really describe the fugue to me. There are moments of intensity, moments of relaxation. To me it is neither light nor dark but of varying degrees of grey. I feel better for having listened to it. There is much of what I call a nervous energy that pervades the work, as well as a lot of other major Beethoven works.

I've read that it has been described as both (pleasant and unpleasant) by different great composers? Though, I may be wrong. Schumann at one point, I think?, described it as sublime beauty - perhaps, he was right?

It sounds twisted and dark to me, hard to enjoy, so, I guess unpleasant? Though, I can see great beauty in great power, and - darkness. So maybe one day it will sound beautiful to me.

Repeated listening will help solidify impressions and understand better how you choose to react to what you hear. I would not describe it as sublime beauty; I will leave that description to the preceding Cavatina movement. But it is uplifting to me and that is what counts to me.

Maybe it cannot be described? But, my point is that if it is as complex as music can be - than the true sound of the Grosse Fugue is beyond 99.999etc. of humanity. Because - we would have to understand all music, imo, to a degree so high that not only 12 tone was completely understood - and/but - any music that could come from it, that is 12 tone - all music - or - most all feelings that can be felt by humanity. So, that is why I said it almost divine. I just think that if it is that complex than regarding that piece it cannot be understood unless you understand it on Beethoven's level?

So, you may see how I find it confusing? I feel it - though I know I do not feel it correctly.

Describing complex works in simpler terms is not easy. Again, repeated listening will bring out impressions that will make sense as you hear this again and again. Good luck with it!

[Michael]

Repeated listening will help solidify impressions and understand better how you choose to react to what you hear. I would not describe it as sublime beauty; I will leave that description to the preceding Cavatina movement. But it is uplifting to me and that is what counts to me.

I find the middle section, if not played too quickly, to be every bit as beautiful as the preceding Cavatina.

[Sorrano]

I find the middle section, if not played too quickly, to be every bit as beautiful as the preceding Cavatina.

It i,s indeed, quite nice!

[Chris]

Well, the concert was very good. The Grosse Fuge played by an orchestra instead of a string quartet is, while not the ideal medium, interesting. Definitely powerful, though not as "gritty". I found it a bit slow, but not as slow as I feared it would be.

[Michael]

Well, the concert was very good. The Grosse Fuge played by an orchestra instead of a string quartet is, while not the ideal medium, interesting. Definitely powerful, though not as "gritty". I found it a bit slow, but not as slow as I feared it would be.

Chris, was it a full orchestral arrangement or just strings?

[Chris]

Just strings. They basically just played the original string quartet version with multiple instruments to a part. The only exception was the double basses - they didn't always play with the cellos. The conductor also said they added some dynamics that weren't in the score. I don't know - maybe that was necessary with the larger forces so all the loudness didn't wear the listeners down.

[Michael]

Just strings. They basically just played the original string quartet version with multiple instruments to a part. The only exception was the double basses - they didn't always play with the cellos. The conductor also said they added some dynamics that weren't in the score. I don't know - maybe that was necessary with the larger forces so all the loudness didn't wear the listeners down.

I have a recording of Klemperer conducting his own arrangement for strings. It's quite effective in its own way.

[Tony John Hearne]

I don't read music so my naive comment is that Grosse Fugue must for me be played "with attack" The recording on You Tube with the Alban Berg Quartet is absolutely thrilling in this regard Along with the CD by the Lindsay's There is something special about this music

[gprengel]

I approached this gigantic work first by Beethoven's wonderful piano version op.134, which Hofrat once sent to me, and here especially starting with the "heavenly" and transcending middle section!
After I got really into this I also could wholeheartely receive the whole original quartett version. So this work has become for me one of the real peaks of Beethoven's heritage!