Beethoven alive today
If beethoven was alive today. What do you think he would have to say about what had happen in NYC and Washington D.C? I think that he would have to say that it sucks and that we should learn to get along with each other. I just wanted to know your feelings on this topic. I am not being political because I am not one for politics. I know that we should have government to run this great country and that we should have laws. Musically speaking though. Which of his symphonies could you say goes best with the past days events? I think his 5th symphony.
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Well Beethoven obviously would have been as disgusted as the rest of the civilised world.
Here is part of a letter that sums up his feelings, written when his own city of Vienna was under siege from the French in 1809:
"Heaven knows what is going to happen - what a destructive, disorderly life I see and hear around me, nothing but drums, canons and human misery in every form."
As a mark of respect, over hear in the UK our traditional last night of the Proms concerts has been changed from the normally jingoistic, nationalistic format. Works featured will include Barber's adagio for strings and the finale of Beethoven's 9th symphony, which I think is a more apt choice than your suggestion of the 5th.
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'Man know thyself''Man know thyself' -
On the day of the disaster they interrupted the Prom programme to insert the funeral march from the 3rd Symphony. I'm not sure if even this piece was appropriate for the circumstance. PS last night the audience ot the Proms were subject to their annual lead-laden dose of Pastoral Symphony, it was on TV but I couldn't bear to listen through it all.Originally posted by Peter:
Well Beethoven obviously would have been as disgusted as the rest of the civilised world.
Here is part of a letter that sums up his feelings, written when his own city of Vienna was under siege from the French in 1809:
"Heaven knows what is going to happen - what a destructive, disorderly life I see and hear around me, nothing but drums, canons and human misery in every form."
As a mark of respect, over hear in the UK our traditional last night of the Proms concerts has been changed from the normally jingoistic, nationalistic format. Works featured will include Barber's adagio for strings and the finale of Beethoven's 9th symphony, which I think is a more apt choice than your suggestion of the 5th.
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod CorkinComment
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rod:
On the day of the disaster they interrupted the Prom programme to insert the funeral march from the 3rd Symphony. I'm not sure if even this piece was appropriate for the circumstance.
Well it wouldn't have done much to help the general mood! In fact I think it was a ridiculous choice - Who would have wanted to listen to a funeral march? Under the circumstances they would perhaps have been better off cancelling the whole thing.
PS last night the audience ot the Proms were subject to their annual lead-laden dose of Pastoral Symphony, it was on TV but I couldn't bear to listen through it all.
I endured it and I have to agree - never has the 6th sounded so dull to me. The storm was a disgrace at virtual half speed - about as terrifying as a little bit of drizzle instead of the raging storm Beethoven intended!
Colin Davis's twee little expressions were quite nauseating - he looked like a camp old queen prancing around!
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'Man know thyself''Man know thyself'Comment
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I quite agree, I felt like hitting his stupid face during 3rd movment. The London Evening Standard reviewer saw things as we do about this performance. I wonder if the audience noticed! Rattle/VPO did little better with the 6th last year. The 6th is usually the worst performed B symphony in my opinion.Originally posted by Peter:
Colin Davis's twee little expressions were quite nauseating - he looked like a camp old queen prancing around!
There's too much 'tweeness' at the Proms in general I think, which is why you'll never see me there. Along with the Vienna New Year Concert, all the negative stereotypes that are associated with classical music become reality at the Proms.
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod CorkinComment
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How do you know he isn't a camp old queen?!Originally posted by Peter:
Colin Davis's twee little expressions were quite nauseating - he looked like a camp old queen prancing around!
Prancing should be left to centaurs. Hi ~Les.
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Agreed. With most performances it usually ends up as a triple-slow movement work.Originally posted by Rod:
I quite agree, I felt like hitting his stupid face during 3rd movment. The London Evening Standard reviewer saw things as we do about this performance. I wonder if the audience noticed! Rattle/VPO did little better with the 6th last year. The 6th is usually the worst performed B symphony in my opinion.
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Hi PDG. With the ideology of Beethoven, his love of freedom, combined with the sadness that someone heroic has died, I think the Funeral March to the Eroica is extremely appropriate for this difficult day of mourning. It provides solace when words won't do, and it has the comforting effect of healing, especially when it changes into the major mode.
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I think the Eroica is concerned with a different type of death, not the futile death as witnessed in the US. A more consoling piece would have been B's Elegaic Hymn op118, though this needs a chorus handy (preferable to the 9th finale if one is). Trouble is no-one would have understood this almost unknown but sublime piece. Ultimately however I don't think a musical gesture was really appropriate for with this event for some reason. They should have just had two minutes silence.Originally posted by ~Leslie:
Hi PDG. With the ideology of Beethoven, his love of freedom, combined with the sadness that someone heroic has died, I think the Funeral March to the Eroica is extremely appropriate for this difficult day of mourning. It provides solace when words won't do, and it has the comforting effect of healing, especially when it changes into the major mode.
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod CorkinComment
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As media shows support from countries throughout the world, beyond this forum, there is sympathy, compassion, and concern for the people of the United States in this time of crisis.
What happened Tuesday was a significant act of war against freedom, democracy, and the prosperity of our country, launched by a largely unseen enemy, in the most hideous manner.
What followed were heroic acts of bravery from people of all walks of life, who put their lives on the line, the rescuers, firemen, police, and the personal sacrifice of three civilian passengers to overtake the hijackers in a plane destined for the Capitol, but crashed instead in Pennsylvannia.
My former answer to the original question of this topic remains resolute. ~
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As I have said earlier our traditional last night of the proms concert tonight will pay a tribute in its own way - I think including the Barber adagio is a wonderful idea as is the last movement of B's 9th which surely offers the best consolation and hope for humanity of all - music certainly says more than mere words can express.Originally posted by ~Leslie:
My former answer to the original question of this topic remains resolute. ~
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'Man know thyself''Man know thyself'Comment
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Don't get on your high horse Leslie, my position is based on the fact that I see the current situation in a far more serious light than it appears you do yourself, so serious that the gesture of sticking on Barber and the 9th at the Proms seems somewhat tame. Usually they play a load of gingoistic nationalistic war-mongering flag-waving music for the last night of the Proms. If this is not appropriate now it goes to prove that it was never appropriate in the first place. Any gesture provided on the Last Night to me is a pathetic one, because those who typically attend this last night (and by default those who perform, conduct and organise it) are invariably a pathetic naiive and ignorant bunch. They can play what they like as far as I am concerned.Originally posted by ~Leslie:
As media shows support from countries throughout the world, beyond this forum, there is sympathy, compassion, and concern for the people of the United States in this time of crisis.
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-15-2001).]Comment
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I think B. himself would have kept silent in such circumstances....
Everything to make a "show" around personnalities in front of the dead of thousands of people is a shame for me.
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ClaudieClaudieComment
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I don't think it's making a show - there is nothing any of us can do to change what has happened. Music is a way of people sharing and expressing their grief -Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
I think B. himself would have kept silent in such circumstances....
Everything to make a "show" around personnalities in front of the dead of thousands of people is a shame for me.
Antonie von Arneth speaks of Baroness von Ertmann :
'After the funeral of her (Baroness Ertmann's) only child she could not find tears .......General Ertmann brought her to Beethoven. The master spoke no words but played for her until she began to sob, so her sorrow found an outlet and comfort.'
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'Man know thyself''Man know thyself'Comment
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...the next thing we will see is Elton John doing a 'Requiem' (and then release a new single).Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
I think B. himself would have kept silent in such circumstances....
Everything to make a "show" around personnalities in front of the dead of thousands of people is a shame for me.
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod CorkinComment
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