Bach - Die Kunst der Fuge

[gprengel]

As a Christmas present I received the long wished "Art of Fuge". I had heard this masterpiece before but with for me unsatisfying instrumentations (cembalo, flutes, organ, ...). I finally wanted to hear it performed by a string quartett - and I can say that I am more than enthusiastic about it - a whole new discovery for me. For me it is on a level of the late Beethoven quartetts! I listen to it over and over again trying to grasp its depths more and more:

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Art-Fugue...5799421&sr=1-1

For me, this and the well-tempered piano ist the peak of all of Bachs works - gorgeous! Has this work ever been discussed here?

By the way, are you aware that Beethoven used the first 5 notes of the main theme for one of his own works? Do you guess which work I mean?

Gerd

[Chris]

Personally, I have always found it best on the harpsichord. It seems at home there. Not so much on the organ. It isn't really like Bach's fugues for the organ, but it is much like his harpsichord fugues. As for non-keyboard instruments...to me, fugues that were obviously intended for the keyboard lose something when they are transfered to an orchestra or group of soloists. Perhaps it is just knowing that all that complexity is coming from a single performer.

[Peter]

I very much like the string quartet as a medium for this music - it seems very appropriate allowing greater clarity of part playing. As to the Beethoven work based on the opening theme I can't recall, but the canon WoO191 incorporates the B-A-C-H motif.

[Chris]

Any Bach music on the string quartet seems odd to me, as that wasn't a combination he composed for. I think there is still a lingering feeling that the Art of Fugue wasn't composed for any particular instrument, but I think Leonhardt adequately demonstrated, and modern scholars agree, that this is keyboard music. Not that it can't be enjoyed in other forms or arrangements, but the composer's intentions in this respect do affect how the music is interpreted, and I believe this is true keyboard music.

[Peter]

Any Bach music on the string quartet seems odd to me, as that wasn't a combination he composed for. I think there is still a lingering feeling that the Art of Fugue wasn't composed for any particular instrument, but I think Leonhardt adequately demonstrated, and modern scholars agree, that this is keyboard music. Not that it can't be enjoyed in other forms or arrangements, but the composer's intentions in this respect do affect how the music is interpreted, and I believe this is true keyboard music.

But Bach himself as well as other Baroque composers frequently arranged their own and other composers' music for different combinations. His harpsichord concertos are thought to be arrangements of other lost concertos and Mozart arranged Bach fugues for string trio and quartet. I have no problem with this especially as the 'Art of fugue' is for showing off contrapuntal mastery not harpsichord technique! The Emmerson quartet have done a fantastic job with this.

[Chris]

But Bach himself as well as other Baroque composers frequently arranged their own and other composers' music for different combinations. His harpsichord concertos are thought to be arrangements of other lost concertos and Mozart arranged Bach fugues for string trio and quartet.

That's arranging, though. When you arrange something, you are adapting it for different forces, changing it to either accommodate limitations in the new instrumentation or to take advantage of limitations that are no longer present in the new instrumentation. A good example of this would be Beethoven's arrangement of the Op. 14, No. 1 piano sonata for string quartet; this is not a simple transcription, but a true adaptation for string quartet.

I have no problem with this especially as the 'Art of fugue' is for showing off contrapuntal mastery not harpsichord technique! The Emmerson quartet have done a fantastic job with this.

I don't have a problem with it, I am just pointing out that this would be like taking a 4-voice fugue from the well-tempered clavier and just playing it directly as it is with a string quartet. Can you do that? Sure. But, while the Art of Fugue may not be for showing off harpsichord technique, it is a part of the work as it was conceived by the composer. If Bach had intended this music to be performed on other instruments, it would certainly be quite different from what it is.

[gprengel]

By the way, are you aware that Beethoven used the first 5 notes of the main theme for one of his own works? Do you guess which work I mean?
Gerd

Well, I checked it again: It is more the first 4 notes which Beethoven used (transposed to f-minor: f-c-ab-f):

I am talking about the introduction of his fragmentary f-minor Trio from 1816:

www.gerdprengel.de/fm-trio.mp3
(here the realised version from Willem Holsbergen from www.unheardbeethoven.org)

Do you see a similiarity?

Gerd

[Peter]

Well, I checked it again: It is more the first 4 notes which Beethoven used (transposed to f-minor: f-c-ab-f):

I am talking about the introduction of his fragmentary f-minor Trio from 1816:

www.gerdprengel.de/fm-trio.mp3
(here the realised version from Willem Holsbergen from www.unheardbeethoven.org)

Do you see a similiarity?

Gerd

Yes well of course those notes simply make up the tonic triad which is the basis for countless themes, but granted this example follows the exact interval rise and fall plus the same rhythm.