a theme?

[Chris]

Sorry, I remain sceptical (British spelling, intended). Name me a melody you consider "masculine" and one you consider "feminine". Other forum members too, please, if you hold with this terminology.

Almost any sonata form first movement could be used as an example. Take the 1st movement of Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 23 (just because I was just thinking about that one). The second theme is clearly more delicate and softer than the primary theme. This sounds more "feminine" to me. Note that I have not classified themes as "masculine" and "feminine" on their own, but merely relative to one another.

[Preston]

To my mind, it seems honesty is one key to having lack of pretentiousness. An open ear can be a hard and challenging thing to have- a lot of the times when a person believes something they take it devoutly, or, get caught in their belief and cannot except another way of thought. I have learned this the hard way! And am, by all means, still learning.

I think that all (or close to it) of the active members of the forum are good human beings. Which is why posting on the forum is always enjoyable for me. On a lot of more crowded forums people go as crazy as hell when someone disagrees or says something they do not like.

Thanks though Philip.

[Chaszz]

Thanks for that Chaszz.

Even after reading your posts, and, understanding how important a theme is-I am guessing that an artist like Van Gogh highly relied on form and themes?

By the way, thanks to the forum members for not jumping on me because I did not know what a theme was. I appreciate all of your kindness and generosity.

Re Van Gogh: When I discussed formal themes, I was referring mostly to "classical" art and artists. Van Gogh is at the opppsite end of the spectrum, a Romantic expressionist who wears his heart on his sleeve, like Rembrandt and Delacroix. Van Gogh's works may be comparable not even to those of a Romatnic composer, but more to the improvisations of an arch romantic like Liszt when he sat down to improvise. His paintngs derive their strength from emotion rather than architectural means. His contemporary (they ran into each other painting in the hills of Provence occasionally) Cezanne is one of the great architectural painters and it is wonfderful to analyze the structures in his works over time. But Van Gogh doesn't fit this bill.

[Peter]

Sorry, I remain sceptical (British spelling, intended). Name me a melody you consider "masculine" and one you consider "feminine". Other forum members too, please, if you hold with this terminology.

I'd go further and say I think of Mozart as feminine and Beethoven masculine!

[Sorrano]

Perhaps comparing Mozart to Beethoven with reference to feminine and masculine would be similar to comparing an Imperfect Authentic Cadence to a Perfect Authentic Cadence?

[Sorrano]

Language, itself, has similar gender terminology. Nouns in Spanish, for example, that end with the vowel a are considered feminine while nouns that end in the letter o are considered masculine. Why this is so I do not know, but I think it relevant to the discussion. (French, as I understand has similar designations.)

As a specific example of a "masculine" theme, according to Chris' definition, take a look at the opening of Beethoven's Piano Sonata, No. 7, Op. 10, no. 3. It is strong, firm, etc. The secondary theme, while definitely not weak, is a more delicate and contrasting theme and would be considered as "feminine" in this context.

Personally, I do not think of contrasting themes in respect to gender delineations, but I do understand it in this context.