Solomon's bio

[pianojones]

I am getting toward the end of Maynard Solomon's biography. I question his Freudian approach to Beethoven (as I did when reading his Mozart bio). Wondering what others who have read this book think about this analysis of the Immortal, and especially the treatment of the composer's relationship to his nephew and sister-in-law.
This all makes B. look pretty bad....

[Serge]

I have a very strong affinity for Solomon's biography. I think it did a commendable job trying to explain the heretofore unexplored reasons why Beethoven was the way he was. Let me assure you, though, pianojones, that I'm the only one here that'll stick up for the book! It tends to be a pariah in these parts.

[maverick108]

Have to agree with you, pianojones. The book is well researched and written for the most part, but Solomon's reliance of Freudian ideas is way out of date! Even the medical profession has disregarded most of Freud's ideas.

[Rod]

Originally posted by pianojones:
I am getting toward the end of Maynard Solomon's biography. I question his Freudian approach to Beethoven (as I did when reading his Mozart bio). Wondering what others who have read this book think about this analysis of the Immortal, and especially the treatment of the composer's relationship to his nephew and sister-in-law.
This all makes B. look pretty bad....

Solomon's psychoanalysis equates to that of a third rate quack. He should have stuck to just finding dates of letters etc. He's exactly the same in his 'Beethoven Essays' book. Never has a writer so wound me up!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Serge:
I have a very strong affinity for Solomon's biography. I think it did a commendable job trying to explain the heretofore unexplored reasons why Beethoven was the way he was. Let me assure you, though, pianojones, that I'm the only one here that'll stick up for the book! It tends to be a pariah in these parts.

"I like Britney Spears' music (yes, I do) because a lot of it sounds symphonic to me."

Recognise these words Serge?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Immortal Beloved]

Originally posted by Rod:
"I like Britney Spears' music (yes, I do) because a lot of it sounds symphonic to me."

Recognise these words Serge?

Birtney spears?! Wow I'm inpressed! *laughing*

[Jin]

Who, then, are the "experts" in the field? There are so many biographies of Beethoven, it's hard to distinguish between the authoratative ones and the superficial flack. Length isn't always an accurate indicator either.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Jin:
Who, then, are the "experts" in the field? There are so many biographies of Beethoven, it's hard to distinguish between the authoratative ones and the superficial flack. Length isn't always an accurate indicator either.

Aside from this excellent site where you should be able to find most things, I'd say Barry Cooper was a pretty reliable source (except for his realisation of the 10th Symphony). Thayer of course is the ultimate source of all Knowledge!!!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 08-02-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Aside from this excellent site where you should be able to find most things, I'd say Barry Cooper was a pretty reliable source (except for his realisation of the 10th Symphony). Thayer of course is the ultimate source of all Knowledge!!!

For someone looking for an all-round guide to B's life and music I would say Cooper's latest effort is a good choice, however from my scanning through this opus I don't think it offers a great deal of new info for those who already have a Beethoven library, though it does make use of the latest research. I'd wait for the softback edition. For sheer volume of facts and info, 'Thayer's Life' remains the king, even though it could do with a new edition. Solomon has done a lot of interesting research but for me he has strayed way too far into matters that are totally out of his league.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 08-02-2001).]

[Bob the Composer]

Originally posted by pianojones:
I am getting toward the end of Maynard Solomon's biography. I question his Freudian approach to Beethoven (as I did when reading his Mozart bio). Wondering what others who have read this book think about this analysis of the Immortal, and especially the treatment of the composer's relationship to his nephew and sister-in-law.
This all makes B. look pretty bad....

It does. I don't really agree with some portions of the books psychoanalysis in that I don't believe there is anything in our personalities that we can't control, wether it be on our own or with counselling. Beethoven was a strong personality, and could have easily overcome some of the problem described in this book as "uncontrollable." The structure of the book, going by period and talking first about his life, and then going into the music of that period was a very good idea, and the guess as to the identity of the immortal beloved is as good as any I've seen, though I don't think he should haved devoted an entire chapter to it. The Freudian analysis should be taken with a grain of salt, but some of it could be correct.

Bob

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Some have said I am ripe for the Madhouse. Does that make me Beethoven? No, but it is interesting.

[This message has been edited by Bob the Composer (edited 08-02-2001).]

[pianojones]

Originally posted by Bob the Composer:
It does. I don't really agree with some portions of the books psychoanalysis in that I don't believe there is anything in our personalities that we can't control, wether it be on our own or with counselling. Beethoven was a strong personality, and could have easily overcome some of the problem described in this book as "uncontrollable."
Bob

However, we should all be encouraged that even with all of his flaws, he was able to make an immeasurable contribution which has enriched us all. We can't all be Beethovens, but we can all, even though very imperfect, do something to improve the lives of those we come in contact with.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod:
Solomon's psychoanalysis equates to that of a third rate quack. He should have stuck to just finding dates of letters etc. He's exactly the same in his 'Beethoven Essays' book. Never has a writer so wound me up!

Unwind, Rod, you'll feel better!! But, really, I have to agree with you. When I read it I was upset too. I haven't read any of his analysis in any other book so I guess it's his own. Don't you think this is where the screenplay and writers came up with most of the ideas for 'Immortal Beloved'. I don't think they researched any other books for that movie.

Joy

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Unwind, Rod, you'll feel better!!

I'll try Joy, but a hot-heads work is never done!

Originally posted by Joy:

Don't you think this is where the screenplay and writers came up with most of the ideas for 'Immortal Beloved'. I don't think they researched any other books for that movie.

Joy

Absolutely Joy, I have said much the same myself in the past. The primary concept of the whole film can only have come from Solomon.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Absolutely Joy, I have said much the same myself in the past. The primary concept of the whole film can only have come from Solomon.

I haven't read the book, but I thought he considered Antonie Brentano to be the IB, so how can the concept that Johanna was the IB have come from Solomon?

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'Man know thyself'

[Bob the Composer]

Originally posted by Peter:
I haven't read the book, but I thought he considered Antonie Brentano to be the IB, so how can the concept that Johanna was the IB have come from Solomon?

Solomon wrote that during the custody battle, Johanna spread rumors that Beethoven must be in love with her, and he hints that there might have been more going on with that custody battle than meets the eye. He also gives credence to a story that places Johanna at Beethoven's deathbed as he dies.

Bob

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Some have said I am ripe for the Madhouse. Does that make me Beethoven? No, but it is interesting.