Ludwig Van Beethoven

[Kitty3185]

Could anyone tell me about Beethoven childhood, his retirement and death, and how many children he had and their names? I need to know all of this by 5/17/01 at 10:00 a.m! Thank you and please!!!!???

Heather Lindsey

[Serge]

Since I'm writing this at half past six on the 16th, you have approx 15 hrs to read this and turn in your project; I think I see a visit to your nearest Starbucks in the real near future! Next time, let us have more notice, Heather!

Beethoven's childhood was, well, hard. He was a precocious child, but had a domineering and (perhaps) abusive father who was once fairly prosperous but later fell on hard times. Beethoven was groomed to become the next Mozart (who had star status then like Jennifer Lopez or Shaggy has now). Beethoven was gifted, but not as quick off the mark as M.

Mid teens, Beethoven became a wage-earner for the family playing organ. B. took instrumental, compositional, and theoretical lessons well into his 20's. He moved out of his hometown of Bonn to Vienna (the cachet equivalent of New York, Paris, or London today) in his late teens to start his musical career.

Retirement? Never took one. Beethoven composed up to Nov. 1826, four months before his death. He was very ill during the last year of his life, and in continual pain.

His death? Afternoon of March 26th, during a thunderstorm. Many have taken it as auspicious, and made his death into a poetic defiance of the God who caused Beethoven so much pain, blah blah blah... Death was attended to by Schindler, B.'s assistant, and a couple of others (i forget who). Funeral had a turnout of 20,000 Viennese commoners and aristocrats.

Beethoven's kids? None. He had a nephew, though; Karl. Tried to raise him as his own kid, though.


Best of luck on that project.

[PDG]

Hello Heather. I would add that Beethoven was a very serious boy who didn't mix well with his peers, & was prone to staring out of the window during school lessons. Okay, I know we've all done that He actually moved to Vienna, aged 22, exactly one year after Mozart's death. Regarding children, yes, probably none, but please take a look at the "Beethoven's Daughter" thread on this forum.

Serge,

Shaggy? I mean Mozart = La Lopez is bad enough, but Shaggy?!? Do you mean Scooby Doo's pal?

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PDG (Peter)

[Serge]

Scooby Doo?! No! The Shaggy with the deep purr for a voice and whose star no doubt will wink out in no time. Nevertheless, he gots catchy music.

Yeah, I meant age 22. Late teens, ballpark figure, ya know?

[MCS]

I hate to contradict you Serge, being a fellow-Canuck and all, but Herr Schindler was not present at Beethoven's death, at least according to Thayer.
Who was there was Anslem Huttenbrenner and a woman, either Johann van Beethoven's wife (kind of doubtful, since B never liked her) or B's maid. Huttenbrenner was an Austrian composer, I think.
H described the scene in a letter to Thayer:
"After Beethoven had lain unconscious, the death-rattle in his throat from 3 o'clock in the afternoon till after 5, there came a flash of lightning accompanied by a violent clap of thunder...After this unexpected phenomenon of nature, which startled me greatly, Beethoven opened his eyes, lifted his right hand and looked up for several seconds with his fist clenched and a very serious, threatening expression....When he let the raised hand sink to the bed, his eyes closed half-way. My right hand was under his head, my left rested on his breast. Not another breath, not a heartbeat more!...I pressed down the half-open eyelids of the dead man, kissed them, then his forehead, mouth and hands..."
Considering some of the things I've read about Schindler, I'm kind of glad he wasn't there.

Mary

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
He actually moved to Vienna, aged 22, exactly one year after Mozart's death. Regarding children, yes, probably none, but please take a look at the "Beethoven's Daughter" thread on this forum.

Please forgive the nit-picking, but Beethoven was actually 21 when he arrived in Vienna on 10th Nov 1792 - his Birthday being Dec 16. Approaching 40 myself in 18 months time these facts matter!!!

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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

Originally posted by Serge:
Mid teens, Beethoven became a wage-earner for the family playing organ

B was appointed deputy court organist to Neefe in Jun 1784 aged 13 at a salary of 150fl.

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'Man know thyself'

[Serge]

Originally posted by Peter:
B was appointed deputy court organist to Neefe in Jun 1784 aged 13 at a salary of 150fl.

Exactly.

[Serge]

Originally posted by MCS:
I hate to contradict you Serge, being a fellow-Canuck and all, but Herr Schindler was not present at Beethoven's death, at least according to Thayer.
Mary

Thank you; the day after I posted, I thought I may have gotten that wrong. Everything I wrote I picked from memory, which clearly was in remiss. My bad.

[Rod]

Originally posted by MCS:

Considering some of the things I've read about Schindler, I'm kind of glad he wasn't there.

Mary

Tho observant young G. von Breuning noted that during B's last days he always had a smile for Schindler when he visited, unlike some others. Indeed Breuning saw Schindler as a more noble character than most of B's other associates! It seems S's personality flaws came to the fore after B's death, S was weak enough to pass off his own perceptions as Beethoven's, a weakness which 'snowballed'. Though there was a whole industry of inventive writing about the master after his death! However Schindler's commentary 'Beethoven as I knew him' is one of the most interesting books you can read on this subject, honest. Only half of it is biography, it's the other half that is really interesting. You can't beat contemporary viewpoints for interest, whether you agree with them or not.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
You can't beat contemporary viewpoints for interest, whether you agree with them or not.

That is true - Schindler wrecked his reputation in my opinion not so much by what he removed and destroyed (which was bad enough - he may have thought he was acting in B's interests), but by forging entries and falsifying the facts.

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'Man know thyself'

[MCS]

Is it true that he put "Ami de Beethoven" on his calling cards? What a twit!

His memoirs are worth a look though, are they Rod? I was afraid they would be nothing much more than a lot of self-aggrandizement. I'll have to look them up...BTW, are the reminiscences of Breuning available?

Mary

[MCS]

Originally posted by Serge:
Thank you; the day after I posted, I thought I may have gotten that wrong. Everything I wrote I picked from memory, which clearly was in remiss. My bad.

Quite all right...The only reason I caught it is that I had read the description of LvB's death a week before your post...I'm glad he wasn't alone at the end. And that he was attended by someone who obviously had considerable respect for him.

Mary

[Peter]

Originally posted by MCS:
Quite all right...The only reason I caught it is that I had read the description of LvB's death a week before your post...I'm glad he wasn't alone at the end. And that he was attended by someone who obviously had considerable respect for him.

Mary

The 2 people present at the moment of Beethoven's death were Anselm Huttenbrenner and oddly in my opinion B's sister in law Therese Van Beethoven. B had been staying in Oct and Nov 1826 with her and his brother Johann at their Gneixendorf estate and he had left after a furious argument. Beethoven had done all he could to prevent her marriage to his brother in 1812 and they had never got on, yet she was destined to be with the composer in his last minutes - bizarre!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 05-19-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by MCS:
Is it true that he put "Ami de Beethoven" on his calling cards? What a twit!

Don't know.

Originally posted by MCS:

His memoirs are worth a look though, are they Rod? I was afraid they would be nothing much more than a lot of self-aggrandizement. I'll have to look them up...BTW, are the reminiscences of Breuning available?
Mary

Would you think I'd give a bad recommendation??!!! G Breuning's book is also available. You can get both in Borders here in London.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin