the history of Fur Elise

[MaryKirk]

PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! I need help!! I am doing a paper on Beethoven and his inspiration for Fur Elise. My mother always played that piece when I was younger, and I need to tie myself into the paper. I thought maybe his inspiration what somewhat like the reason my mother always played it.

[Peter]

The Bagatelle in A minor(WoO59) known as 'Fur Elise' was written in 1810 for Therese Malfatti - a lady Beethoven was considering marrying at that time. Nothing came of this, as Therese's father (Dr.Giovanni Malfatti, who treated Beethoven in his final illness) objected to the union and she was married in 1816 to Baron Von Drosdick. In a letter of May 1810 to Therese, Beethoven refers to the Bagatelle - 'In this letter, beloved Therese, you are receiving what I promised you.'

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'Man know thyself'

[PDG]

And just in case Mary is still a little confused, the majority opinion is that the dedication to 'Elise' should really have read 'Therese' - Beethoven's scruffy handwriting on the score being confused by the publisher.
It is also possible that B meant 'Elise', this being an affectionate term for a loved one (in this case, still Therese Malfatti).

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PDG (Peter)

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
And just in case Mary is still a little confused, the majority opinion is that the dedication to 'Elise' should really have read 'Therese' - Beethoven's scruffy handwriting on the score being confused by the publisher.
It is also possible that B meant 'Elise', this being an affectionate term for a loved one (in this case, still Therese Malfatti).

The latest writings suggest 'Elise' is correct. I'd like to see the handwriting myself, but B typically used 'pet' names for females he was particularly close to.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Oleg]

Stiil not clear how Therese could become Elise even with scruffy handwriting.
Does anyone know?
That's very ineresting.
Thank you.

[Claudie MICAULT]

At this time Elise was also a nickname for Therese.
Doktor Giovanni MALFATTI was not the father, but the uncle of Thèrèse. Anyway he gave to his family an advise against the mariage for he thought B. a "strange man"... and knew better than others his state of health I guess.

[Michael]

"Elise" seems to have been a common nickname for a young attractive girl. Beethoven's earliest surviving song (written when he was twelve) is called "Schilderung eines Madchens" (Description of a Young Woman), and a translation of the first verse runs:

"Do you want me, my friend, to describe
Elise to you?
May Uz's spirit
inspire me!"

The words are by that great lyricist "Anon".

Michael

[Joy]

Originally posted by Michael:
"Elise" seems to have been a common nickname for a young attractive girl. Beethoven's earliest surviving song (written when he was twelve) is called "Schilderung eines Madchens" (Description of a Young Woman), and a translation of the first verse runs:

"Do you want me, my friend, to describe
Elise to you?
May Uz's spirit
inspire me!"

The words are by that great lyricist "Anon".

Michael

Very interesting, Michael, I had never heard that story before.
Joy

[aaron842]

Originally posted by MaryKirk:
PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! I need help!! I am doing a paper on Beethoven and his inspiration for Fur Elise. My mother always played that piece when I was younger, and I need to tie myself into the paper. I thought maybe his inspiration what somewhat like the reason my mother always played it.

Well,this might not help much,but I'll tell you this.I was once told that Beethoven composed that piece for his sister,Elise.I don't know if its true,but thats all I know.

[aaron842]

Originally posted by Oleg:
Stiil not clear how Therese could become Elise even with scruffy handwriting.
Does anyone know?
That's very ineresting.
Thank you.

I don't see how they could get Elise out of Therese either.We're on the same page.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by aaron842:

Originally posted by MaryKirk:
PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! I need help!! I am doing a paper on Beethoven and his inspiration for Fur Elise. My mother always played that piece when I was younger, and I need to tie myself into the paper. I thought maybe his inspiration what somewhat like the reason my mother always played it.

Well,this might not help much,but I'll tell you this.I was once told that Beethoven composed that piece for his sister, Elise.I don't know if its true,but thats all I know.

Dear Aaron;

Beethoven had two sisters: Anna Maria (born and died in 1779) and Maria Margaretha (1786-1787). I seriously doubt that Beethoven would dedicate a piece of music he wrote in 1810 to either of his sisters who died in infancy.


Hofrat

[PDG]

Originally posted by aaron842:

Originally posted by MaryKirk:
PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! I need help!! I am doing a paper on Beethoven and his inspiration for Fur Elise. My mother always played that piece when I was younger, and I need to tie myself into the paper. I thought maybe his inspiration what somewhat like the reason my mother always played it.

Well,this might not help much,but I'll tell you this.I was once told that Beethoven composed that piece for his sister,Elise.I don't know if its true,but thats all I know.

I'm awash with nostalgia! I'd imagine that MaryKirk's paper has been submitted by now since her urgent request (her only ever post) was made over five years ago!!

[Frankli]

I don't see how they could get Elise out of Therese either.We're on the same page.

Check this example:
http://www.frank.dds.nl/Etc/Therese.JPG

It shows how "Elise" could be read where "Therèse was written".
It is well-known that Nohl, who discovered the autograph in 1865, had problems with interpreting Beethoven's handwriting, especially with the old-German, which Beethoven still used in 1810.

Nohl discovered the autograph in the inheritance of a lady whose family had been related to the Malfatti's, and the Malfatti's had a daughter named Therese whom Beethoven was in love with for a while. In fact, Therese had given it to this lady before her (T's) death in 1851.
Nohl copied "Für Elise" and published it, and that's all that we have, since the original has never been seen since then.
So apart from other suggestions in this thread, there are a lot of indications that indeed the correct title would be "Für Therese".

The above theory comes from Max Unger: "Beethoven and Therese von Malfatti"(1925).

Btw Beethoven didn't explicitely compose the piece for Therese; the first sketches can be found in the Pastoral sketchbook, which is 2 years older. So he probably went through his old sketches searching for something that he could offer her.

[Michael]

Originally posted by PDG:
I'm awash with nostalgia! I'd imagine that MaryKirk's paper has been submitted by now since her urgent request (her only ever post) was made over five years ago!!

It's nice to know that our scribblings may be preserved for all time!

[Agnes Selby]

Originally posted by Frankli:
[b] Check this example:
http://www.frank.dds.nl/Etc/Therese.JPG

It shows how "Elise" could be read where "Therèse was written".
It is well-known that Nohl, who discovered the autograph in 1865, had problems with interpreting Beethoven's handwriting, especially with the old-German, which Beethoven still used in 1810.

Nohl discovered the autograph in the inheritance of a lady whose family had been related to the Malfatti's, and the Malfatti's had a daughter named Therese whom Beethoven was in love with for a while. In fact, Therese had given it to this lady before her (T's) death in 1851.
Nohl copied "Für Elise" and published it, and that's all that we have, since the original has never been seen since then.
So apart from other suggestions in this thread, there are a lot of indications that indeed the correct title would be "Für Therese".

The above theory comes from Max Unger: "Beethoven and Therese von Malfatti"(1925).

Btw Beethoven didn't explicitely compose the piece for Therese; the first sketches can be found in the Pastoral sketchbook, which is 2 years older. So he probably went through his old sketches searching for something that he could offer her.

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It all makes sense. The request by Mary was
made 5 years ago and Beethoven
sketched it two years before dedicating it to Terese. Now how about this? Did Beethoven know Terese when he first sketched the work? Perhaps it was intended for another lady. Who was this lady?
Regards,
Agnes.