schubert's variations on B?

[terry]

Does anybody know if Schubert ever wrote some variations on a Beethoven's theme? I heard something on the radio,but I'm not sure I understood well. Apart from Liszt and Saint-Saens, is there any other composer who wrote variations on B? Is it possible to find them recorded? Thank you

[Teresa]

Originally posted by terry:
Does anybody know if Schubert ever wrote some variations on a Beethoven's theme? I heard something on the radio,but I'm not sure I understood well. Apart from Liszt and Saint-Saens, is there any other composer who wrote variations on B? Is it possible to find them recorded? Thank you

Hi, Terry,

The only thing I've been able to find is that the variations on a French song in E minor, D624, are dedicated to Beethoven. If anyone knows of anything else I'm sure they'll post it. Hope this helps.

Teresa

[Droell]

Originally posted by Teresa:

Hi, Terry,

The only thing I've been able to find is that the variations on a French song in E minor, D624, are dedicated to Beethoven. If anyone knows of anything else I'm sure they'll post it. Hope this helps.

Teresa

You mean, aside from the 4th movement of Brahms's first symphony?

[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 01-26-2006).]

[Teresa]

Originally posted by Droell:

You mean, aside from the 4th movement of Brahms's first symphony?

[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 01-26-2006).]

I mean that the only thing I could find concerning Schubert and Beethoven variations is the one I mentioned, the variations by Schubert that are dedicated to Beethoven. Don't know about Brahms. I'm afraid I'm not a musical scholar like a lot of you, and I mean that as a compliment. I wish I could rattle off movements and pieces from memory but, alas, I'm still learning.

[terry]

Yes, I mean if anybody has composed real variations about a theme by B. i.e. as Variations "se vuol ballare" "judas" ect. ect. I know about Brahms and his first'finale. Thank you for your answer, probably these were the reale Schubert's variations. Saint-saens wrote "real"variatons, didn't he? I read op.35, but these actually are B'variatons: Could anyone tell me more about this S.Saens's piece?
Hi Teresa, I chose as a nickname my real name (Teresa) thinking I was the only one... Are you Italian also? Are we the same person? (laughing)

[Teresa]

Originally posted by terry:
Hi Teresa, I chose as a nickname my real name (Teresa) thinking I was the only one... Are you Italian also? Are we the same person? (laughing)

No, I'm afraid I'm not Italian; but my name is Terri as well and the name I usually go by. Thought I'd use Teresa as my nickname as it's so seldom used. I'm in the U.S., a southerner. Welcome to the board!

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by terry:
Does anybody know if Schubert ever wrote some variations on a Beethoven's theme? I heard something on the radio,but I'm not sure I understood well. Apart from Liszt and Saint-Saens, is there any other composer who wrote variations on B? Is it possible to find them recorded? Thank you

Dear Terry;

Archduke Rudolf, Beethoven's only student of composition, wrote 40 variations on a theme that Beethoven gave him.


Hofrat

[Michael]

Originally posted by terry:
Does anybody know if Schubert ever wrote some variations on a Beethoven's theme? I heard something on the radio,but I'm not sure I understood well. Apart from Liszt and Saint-Saens, is there any other composer who wrote variations on B? Is it possible to find them recorded? Thank you

I wonder if you are referring to the Diabelli variations. The publisher, Diabelli, sent his theme to about thirty composers asking each of them to supply a variation. Beethoven famously supplied over thirty of them (one Beethoven equalling thirty others?) but I believe Schubert contributed at least one.
A recording was issued some years ago of all the "other" Diabelli variations but I've forgotten the details.

Michael

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Michael:
I wonder if you are referring to the Diabelli variations. The publisher, Diabelli, sent his theme to about thirty composers asking each of them to supply a variation. Beethoven famously supplied over thirty of them (one Beethoven equalling thirty others?) but I believe Schubert contributed at least one.
A recording was issued some years ago of all the "other" Diabelli variations but I've forgotten the details.

Michael

Dear Michael;

Diabelli received 1 variation from each of 50 leading pianists other than Beethoven. Amongst the contributors (whom I remember off hand) were Liszt, Schubert, Moscheles, Vorisek, and Archduke Rudolf.

Hofrat

[Peter]

Originally posted by terry:
Does anybody know if Schubert ever wrote some variations on a Beethoven's theme? I heard something on the radio,but I'm not sure I understood well. Apart from Liszt and Saint-Saens, is there any other composer who wrote variations on B? Is it possible to find them recorded? Thank you

I think you may be referring to the eight variations on a French song for 4 hands (D624) that Schubert dedicated to Beethoven and apparently presented him with a copy in 1822.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[heidi]

Originally posted by terry:
Does anybody know if Schubert ever wrote some variations on a Beethoven's theme? I heard something on the radio,but I'm not sure I understood well. Apart from Liszt and Saint-Saens, is there any other composer who wrote variations on B? Is it possible to find them recorded? Thank you

I sent a good friend of mine this page. He maintains the SIUK (Schubert Institute U.K)website and has his own Schubert site, www.halftimescores.co.uk , so I concider him some what of a Schubert expert. This is what he sent me

From Richard Morris:

"Schubert wrote no formal variations on any Beethoven themes. In fact, he wrote relatively few variations in his all too short composing career. The difinitive book on the subject (Maurice JE Brown: Schubert's Variations) lists just 16 works in that form.

Of these, the closest to varations on a Beetoven theme are the "Varitations on a theme of Anselm H ttenbrenner'. The theme comes from the Andantino of H ttenbrenner's 11st String Quartet, which Brown says is a 'very mild paraphase' of the Allegretto from Beethoven's 7th symphony (which Brown says is a recurring influence on Franzl). Schubert's 'late' Oclet, was modelled on Beethoven's 'early' Septet, and has a variations movement, but the theme is one of Schubert's own (from his Singspiel Die Freunde von Salamanka). (I quoted 'early' and 'late' because, whilst they are 'early' and 'late' when compared to the composer's output, Schubert was actually younger when he wrote his Octet than LvB was when he wrote his Septet).

Schubert also wrote, of course, a wonderful variation on the Diabelli Waltz, (LvB, I seem to recall, churned out 33 variations to try to get one as good :-) )."

Thanks Richard.

[terry]

Thanks all. Just one question, perhaps I haven't clarified. I'd like to know is some other composer has ever written variations about a Beethoven's original theme, as Beethoven himself did with Diabelli etc. I heard that Saint sains did, thank you

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by terry:
Thanks all. Just one question, perhaps I haven't clarified. I'd like to know is some other composer has ever written variations about a Beethoven's original theme, as Beethoven himself did with Diabelli etc. I heard that Saint sains did, thank you

Dear Terry;

As I wrote earlier in this thread, Archduke Rudolf wrote 40 variations on a theme he received from Beethoven.

In addition, Archduke Rudolf answered Diabelli's call and submitted a variation. The variation submitted by the archduke was one of the best of the 50 non-Beethoven variations which is quite remarkable since he was not a professional musician.


Hofrat

[jman]

Saint-Saen wrote variations for two pianos on the trio from Beethoven's piano Sonata op. 31 no. 3 in E-flat. I've never heard them, that's about all I know!

I personally cannot think of any other variations on original Beethoven themes by famous composers...

[Michael]

The "Concertante Variations on a Theme of Beethoven" were written in 1923 by the well-known Franz Schmidt. There are 15 variations on what are actually two themes, the scherzo and trio from the Spring Sonata.

Michael