Who has the best cycle of Beethoven's piano sonatas?

[Mako]

Here's one out of left field. Australian (though Dutch born) pianist Gerard Willems on an Australian designed and hand made pianoforte, by Stuart & Sons. The cycle was completed in 1998, and it's better than many performances I've heard. These pianos are the first real development in technology of pianomaking in almost 100 years and has been, I feel well worth the wait.

BTW, no-one has mentioned the set by Ashkenazy. Funny that, easily better than Arrau, Schnabel and co. I agree that Perahia is a master of our time.

[Mako]

Hey check this out!! Beethoven lives at the 2001 Sydney Festival!!!! Here's a quote from the promo:-

Beethoven Sonatas
Sydney Festival presents at Angel Place Recital Hall

Beethoven's thirty-two sonata's for pianoforte are one of the sublime creative achievements of man. Composed between 1793 and 1822, they provide inexhaustible interpretative possibilities.

Seven of Australia's distinguished pianists will perform the complete cycle, and in another manifestation of Australia's musical maturity, they do so on an Australian instrument, the celebrated Stuart Piano, a gift to Sydney Festival from the Government of New South Wales.

10 January - Stephanie McCallum
Sonata No6 in F Major Op10 No2
Sonata No23 in F Minor Op57 Appassionata
Sonata No18 in E-flat Major Op31 No3
Sonata No32 in C Minor Op111

12 January - Stephen Savage
Sonata No9 in E Major Op14 No1
Sonata No2 in A Major Op2 No2
Sonata No17 in D Minor Op31 No2
Sonata No30 in E Major Op109
Sonata No19 in G Minor Op49 No1

13 January - Phillip Shovk
Sonata No16 in G Major Op31 No1
Sonata No31 in A-flat Major Op110
Sonata No11 in B-flat Major Op22
Sonata No12 in A-flat Major Op26 Funeral March

14 January - Mark Coughlan
Sonata No26 in E-flat Op81a Les Adieux
Sonata No14 in C-sharp Minor Op27 No2 Moonlight
Sonata No15 in D Major Op2 No1
Sonata No1 in F Minor Op2 No1

17 January - Ian Munro
Sonata No7 in D Major Op10 No3
Sonata No5 in C Minor Op10 No1
Sonata No21 in C Major Op53 Waldstein
Sonata No20 in G Major Op49 No2
Sonata No27 in E Minor Op90

20 January - Stephen McIntyre
Sonata No3 in C Major Op2 No3
Sonata No8 in C Minor Op13
Sonata No28 in A Major Op101
Sonata No24 in F-sharp Major Op78
Sonata No25 in G Major Op 79

21 January - Michael Brimer
Sonata No4 in E flat major Op7
Sonata No10 in G major Op14 No2
Sonata No13 in E flat major Op27 No1
Sonata No22 in F major Op54
Sonata No29 in B flat major Op106 Hammerklavier

Anyone in Sydney should really try to get along to this!

[Rod]

Originally posted by Mako:

...they do so on an Australian instrument, the celebrated Stuart Piano, a gift to Sydney Festival from the Government of New South Wales.

Is it Stuart who is the Aussie inventor of the new stringing technique designed to increase brightness and sustain? They demonstrated this new Aussie piano in TV here in the UK (but not with B's music). It sounded brighter ok, but a little jangly - reminicent of the early iron framed English-actioned piano sound one associates with 'Western Saloon Bar' scenes. But why they want to increase an already infinite sustain is a mystery to me, perhaps its the new thing in compositional requirement. I don't think this new development will catch on over here from what I heard. Of course I'm sure Aussies are proud of it!

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Mako]

Rod,

Yes, It is Wayne Stuart. The notes in the sonata package refer to it as".... 'bridge agraffe'. A sophisticated string coupling device designed to retain the vertical mode of vibration produced when the hammer strikes the string. Compared to standard piano tone, these new instruments demonstrate a dramatic improvement in tuning and internal damping of the string's decay transient....has eight octaves...and four pedals....

I think Beethoven would have approved of the first real development in piano making in a hundred odd years.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Mako:


I think Beethoven would have approved of the first real development in piano making in a hundred odd years.

I doubt Rod would agree - the improvements would infuriate B because he would have to rewrite the whole damn lot! Sorry Rod, I couldn't resist it.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I doubt Rod would agree - the improvements would infuriate B because he would have to rewrite the whole damn lot! Sorry Rod, I couldn't resist it.

When 5.5 octave pianos became more numerous in B's day I believe he considered 'upgrading' his earlier sonatas (pre Waldstein) to make use of the extended keyboard, but then he rightly thought better of the idea. I think the best compromise piano between old an new worlds were the early iron framed Viennese pianos with English action yet with small (by todays standards) leather-covered (as opposed to felt) hammers. I believe the 1854 Streicher I heard was of this nature, the sound was reminicent of the late fp style, but much 'bigger' - better suited to a larger concert venue (the action was very heavy however in this example). Viennese actioned pianos continued to be made up to the end of the C19th but I haven't heard one of these late instruments, they died out because due the simple mechanics, the increase in hammer weight necessary to agitate heavier stringing could not be effectively counterbalanced to allow easy finger-work on the keys.

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Mako]

Peter,

I take Rod's answer as a firm yes to Beethoven approval!

Rod,
Are Bosendorfers not made in Vienna? I have been to the head office there.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Mako:

Rod,
Are Bosendorfers not made in Vienna? I have been to the head office there.

I believe you are correct. I have a marginal preference for this brand over Steinway (from what I've heard). Not that either are particularly ideal for Beethoven. I have seen photographs of circa late C19th Bosendorfers with Viennese-looking actions. I'd like to hear one of these instruments, but I don't think anyone bothers to play this genre of piano.

Rod


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Mako]

Rod,

You know you can buy your own Bosendorfer c.1850 for around $15,000 U.S.?

[This message has been edited by Mako (edited 01-18-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Mako:
Rod,

You know you can buy your own Bosendorfer c.1850 for around $15,000 U.S.?

[This message has been edited by Mako (edited 01-18-2001).]

That would be a good deal for an original model in good working order. Pity I haven't got $15,000 for what would be a speculative venture (haveing not heard this type before). If you could find an original Graf circa 1820-30 for the same cash I would buy it tomorrow!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Mako]

Good luck finding one of those! Though you can get a c.1830 Streicher unrestored for that. I believe Streicher was Graf's main competitor in Germany at the time.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Mako:
Good luck finding one of those! Though you can get a c.1830 Streicher unrestored for that. I believe Streicher was Graf's main competitor in Germany at the time.

I don't know about Germany, but definitely in Vienna the two were great rivals. I believe Streicher himself was a bit put out when B got his novel quadrupple stung Graf. S said the quality of stringing on his conventional tripple strung instruments rendered such novelties unnecessary! Today there seem to be far fewer working Streicher fp's in existance than Grafs, judging from recordings.

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Serge]

I haven't looked over this thread in a little while, so I was surprised to see your reply to my comment about Perahia's Goldberg, Rod. I wonder sometimes if anything that's not out on Nimbus or played on a fp meets your standard! Could you describe how that harpsichord recording you mention displays the 'cumbersome' playing of P.? Perahia's playing is articulate, concise, and clear. Many people consider Gould to be the standardbearer in this work, but Perahia certainly gets close. Do you like Gould, by the way, Rod? He never played the fp or h as far as I know, so you know...

[Rod]

Originally posted by Serge:
I haven't looked over this thread in a little while, so I was surprised to see your reply to my comment about Perahia's Goldberg, Rod. I wonder sometimes if anything that's not out on Nimbus or played on a fp meets your standard! Could you describe how that harpsichord recording you mention displays the 'cumbersome' playing of P.? Perahia's playing is articulate, concise, and clear. Many people consider Gould to be the standardbearer in this work, but Perahia certainly gets close. Do you like Gould, by the way, Rod? He never played the fp or h as far as I know, so you know...

Didn't I mention it?...I'm Communications Manager for Nimbus! Regarding the Goldberg Variations, I seriously cannot believe that anyone would say that this music works better on a Steinway than a harpsicord. The pf's unsuitability is apparent from the first few bars! I have a dislike for Perahia's taste for playing harp music on the piano (he's done a few such recordings) and then getting awards for it! Harp music by its very nature tends to sound cumbersome on the piano. I posessed a CD of B variations by Gould, some moments were good, others rather trite, the sound quality was the worst I've heard, but not as bad as Gould's singing that was also prominent in this recording!!

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
I seriously cannot believe that anyone would say that this music works better on a Steinway than a harpsicord.

Actually, I don't even understand why someone would want to do that. Harpsichord music sucks on the piano. It seems like a lot of effort to go through to record something like that and not have it even sound like it makes any sense.