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Reading a Score, and Beethoven's Mind By ALLAN KOZINN

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    Reading a Score, and Beethoven's Mind By ALLAN KOZINN

    Reading a Score, and Beethoven's Mind
    By ALLAN KOZINN :

    "It has been 20 years since Roger Norrington began researching the way Beethoven's symphonies were performed in the composer's time and how that style might be revived.
    Sir Roger was not the first to raise those questions, but the startling set of Beethoven symphonies he recorded in the 1980's with his period instrument band, the London Classical Players, lighted a fire in the world of Beethoven interpretation.

    At the time most of the early-music world was focused on Baroque and Classical music, and as far as the big modern orchestras were concerned, these groups had gone far
    enough. It was one thing to surrender Bach and Vivaldi, but when Christopher Hogwood and his Academy of Ancient Music took on the Mozart symphonies, red flags went up. A move on Beethoven could be trouble. But Sir Roger forged ahead; he earned his knighthood partly for wresting the grail of Beethoven performance tradition away from Germanic
    orchestras and making it a British trophy.

    As it turned out, modern-instrument orchestras survived this assault: they have continued playing Beethoven, and they may have benefited from Sir Roger's experiments in performance style and the research behind it. That is certainly how Sir Roger sees it, as he explained on Sunday and Monday in "Beethoven Experience" a pair of Mostly
    Mozart Festival lecture-concerts at Alice Tully Hall.

    To the extent that other conductors have reconsidered issues like balance, articulation, tempos and the use of
    string and wind vibrato, he has a point. He is taking the view that these interpretive issues are far more crucial than the use of old or new instruments, and he is proving
    it by spending much of his time with modern orchestras, including the Camerata Salzburg, which he brought to Lincoln Center for these concerts.

    Each program balanced an infrequently heard dramatic work against an even more dramatic symphony. On Monday it was the ballet score "The Creatures of Prometheus" on Sunday, the incidental music for "Egmont" with the Fifth Symphony.

    There was, in Sir Roger's quasi-improvised and often humorous commentaries, a sense of revisiting the sites of battles fought and won long ago. Some weren't as momentous
    as he made out.

    Insisting, for example, that an orchestra's size and layout are paramount, he said the Camerata's roster of 49 players was about what Beethoven could have expected, and that its seating plan, with the first and second violinists on either side of the conductor (instead of next to each other, as they are in many modern orchestras) is essential.
    But none of this would have seemed radical to a Mostly Mozart audience.

    The festival's own orchestra is about the same size and has been since the late 1960's; its violins have been seated
    antiphonally since Gerard Schwarz took over the orchestra in the early 1980's. Louis Langrée, the festival's new director, has maintained that arrangement, which is
    increasingly common.

    There were more contentious issues. Sir Roger devoted much of his talk on Sunday to Beethoven's tempos, arguing that his metronome markings are as much a part of the score as the notes, and that they should be adhered to religiously. This has been much debated. Opponents note that Beethoven
    was deaf when he affixed those indications and may have miscalculated.

    Some of these tempos are quite speedy, as Sir Roger showed when he finally got around to performing. The opening movement of the Fifth Symphony, which he conducted on
    Monday, was so fast as to seem almost reckless at times; it clearly pushed the players to their limits. This was truly
    exciting music making: the Fifth as a visceral experience rather than a weighty, philosophical one. The opening movement of the "Eroica," on Sunday's program, cruised
    along similarly, underscoring the music's evocation of battle.

    Sir Roger addressed two issues on Monday. One was vibrato, to which he has an almost maniacal allergy. There is some merit in his insistence that an unvibrated string and wind
    sound yields a certain clarity of texture in which inner voices were heard as distinctly as the top lines. But that clarity also came from the balance of winds and strings in
    such a small orchestra and from the winds' being on risers.


    On the other hand the loss of the constant adjustment that vibrato makes possible took a toll on the group's intonation. By the end of "The Creatures of Prometheus," notes were going sour at an alarming rate, and there was
    some of that in the "Eroica" as well. The Monday performances fared generally better. Sir Roger's other topic on Monday was the importance of extra-musical imagery
    in Beethoven. Here his historical presentation was arguable. The concept of abstract music - music without programs or other associations - did not arise until the
    1920's, he said. But surely this was a major point of contention as far back as the 1870's, between the supporters of Wagner, for whom extra-musical meaning was crucial, and Brahms, for whom it was not.

    That Beethoven sometimes had a program in mind is clear enough; "Pastoral" and "Eroica"
    Symphonies are unarguably driven by them. But Beethoven's comments, even about these works, betrayed an ambivalence about programmatic music. In works like the Fifth there is no way to say what he had in mind.

    Sir Roger made a fanciful proposal of his own: the Fifth could be about the return of Ulysses. The first movement might represent his struggle to cross the sea; the second
    could show Penelope's suitors trying unsuccessfully to string Ulysses' bow and the disguised Ulysses succeeding.
    The third might depict him killing the suitors, and the finale would be the reunion of Ulysses and Penelope. In the dramatic performance this inventively pasted-on scenario seemed plausible, at least in the first and last movements.


    But for all the chatter - and there was one listener who, after 20 minutes of talk on Monday, called out, "Music, please!" - some of the most striking aspects of the
    performance had little to do with the topics Sir Roger addressed. His approach to dynamics was one example. The chord blasts that run through the opening movement of the
    "Eroica" were given dramatic shape by way of a steady crescendo. And in the opening movement of the Fifth, he applied a similarly dramatic crescendo to the single note entries of the French horns, an enlivening touch more typically left uninflected.

    The one troubling current of Sir Roger's presentation was the sense of monolithic rightness he projected. The outcome
    of the period instrument wars of the 1980's was not the establishment of a new dogma but a sense that music - Beethoven's as much as anyone else's - yields many truths.
    Just as conductors of modern orchestras learned that there was much to gain by adopting some of Sir Roger's ideas,
    many listeners who had sworn by period-instrument performances came to see that there was also great beauty, passion and drama in the grandly scaled, slow-paced
    performances of Wilhelm Furtwängler, surely Sir Roger's polar opposite."



    ------------------
    'Man know thyself'
    'Man know thyself'

    #2
    Very interesting article Peter, but too much for me to comment on comprehensively so I'll stick to a couple of issues here.

    I agree that with orchestral pieces the string and woodwind sections can be more effective if it applies the performance techniques associated with the authentic movement, eg holding back on the vibrato. Despite the lack of success in this respect noted in the review, I have many recordings where vibrato is barely if at all perceptible yet the notes are still held good. That being said, you can't beat the dry velvety texture of gut strings. But there are issues with the bow for early music that effect the nature of the sound than cannot easily be replicated by the modern bow. With the piano, brass, and timpani of the modern type, nothing can be done.

    I am not convinced by Norrington's connection between the 5th and the Ulysses story.


    ------------------
    "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

    [This message has been edited by Rod (edited August 21, 2003).]
    http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

    Comment


      #3
      The use of speedy tempos seems to ignore the likelihood that musicians in those times were probably not as skilled as today's are.
      For one thing, the sheer number of highly skilled instumentalists competing for positions in the best orchestras would have been far less. There is testimony in writings that some of the secondary chairs in the orchestras of the day were filled by inadequate players. Leaving aside the issue of Beethoven's metronome markings for the moment, I always feel the general practice of rushed allegros with these authentic performance bands is not a good one. It especially reduces to slightness if not meaninglessness, many beautiful passages which I used to love, growing up with the now-deprecated slower allegros of the last generation.

      What evidence is there for lack of vibrato in early playing? I'm not being crtical here necessarily, just curious as to what backs it up. In much music, vibrato seems only a byproduct of playing the intrument with natural expression, and it would seem a bit against nature to forbid it.

      The stealthy nature of the third movement of the Fifth Symphony doesn't seem suited to the killing of the suitors, unless the arrival of the fourth movement is supposedly
      the moment of the killings. I agree with Rod that this is a far-fetched interpretation.

      If we don't know a detailed program for the Fifth, we can still infer that the meaning of last movement is one of great triumph over adversity. And maybe that's enough.


      [This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited August 21, 2003).]
      See my paintings and sculptures at Saatchiart.com. In the search box, choose Artist and enter Charles Zigmund.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Chaszz:
        The use of speedy tempos seems to ignore the likelihood that musicians in those times were probably not as skilled as today's are.
        For one thing, the sheer number of highly skilled instumentalists competing for positions in the best orchestras would have been far less. There is testimony in writings that some of the secondary chairs in the orchestras of the day were filled by inadequate players. Leaving aside the issue of Beethoven's metronome markings for the moment, I always feel the general practice of rushed allegros with these authentic performance bands is not a good one. It especially reduces to slightness if not meaninglessness, many beautiful passages which I used to love, growing up with the now-deprecated slower allegros of the last generation.
        I know of a contemporary reviewer talking about Beethoven's 'whirlwind tempos'. Beethoven's scores consistantly ask in Italian for music going beyond that of a moderate allegro. I suspect more than any other composer. This cannot be simple ignored. This is backed up by his fast metornome indications.

        With Beethoven at least the fast tempi are warrented on aesthetic grounds in any case, If I want to hear 'Allegro ponderoso' music I know where to look. Also I can't imagine a firery character like Beethoven conducting in any other way. Whether the orchestra was up to it or not I suspect was not a primary concern to a man like Beethoven when composing.

        Sometimes the music can be played to fast I admit, but these instances are rare compared to the occasions where the music is played too slow, so slow that the observation of the repeats is no longer feasible as we hear in many cases.


        Originally posted by Chaszz:

        What evidence is there for lack of vibrato in early playing? I'm not being crtical here necessarily, just curious as to what backs it up. In much music, vibrato seems only a byproduct of playing the intrument with natural expression, and it would seem a bit against nature to forbid it.
        There is evidence, but I am not concerned with it on this ground alone, I dislike this constant obligato vibrato on asthetic grounds regardless. With its use the power of the notes becomes diminished, and it allows the shape of the theme uncertain or exagerated.

        ------------------
        "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

        [This message has been edited by Rod (edited August 21, 2003).]
        http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Chaszz:
          The use of speedy tempos seems to ignore the likelihood that musicians in those times were probably not as skilled as today's are.
          For one thing, the sheer number of highly skilled instumentalists competing for positions in the best orchestras would have been far less. There is testimony in writings that some of the secondary chairs in the orchestras of the day were filled by inadequate players. Leaving aside the issue of Beethoven's metronome markings for the moment, I always feel the general practice of rushed allegros with these authentic performance bands is not a good one. It especially reduces to slightness if not meaninglessness, many beautiful passages which I used to love, growing up with the now-deprecated slower allegros of the last generation.

          What evidence is there for lack of vibrato in early playing? I'm not being crtical here necessarily, just curious as to what backs it up. In much music, vibrato seems only a byproduct of playing the intrument with natural expression, and it would seem a bit against nature to forbid it.

          The stealthy nature of the third movement of the Fifth Symphony doesn't seem suited to the killing of the suitors, unless the arrival of the fourth movement is supposedly
          the moment of the killings. I agree with Rod that this is a far-fetched interpretation.

          If we don't know a detailed program for the Fifth, we can still infer that the meaning of last movement is one of great triumph over adversity. And maybe that's enough.


          [This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited August 21, 2003).]
          I think we can be certain that orchestras were not up to today's standards - for example, Schubert's 9th was considered unplayable at the time, yet no orchestra worth the name today would have problems with it. For an interesting article on vibrato see http://www.saraband.com.au/vibrato.htm

          ------------------
          'Man know thyself'
          'Man know thyself'

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Peter:
            I think we can be certain that orchestras were not up to today's standards - for example, Schubert's 9th was considered unplayable at the time, yet no orchestra worth the name today would have problems with it. For an interesting article on vibrato see http://www.saraband.com.au/vibrato.htm

            Interesting article, as I have said it is the continuous obligato use of vibrato that i find irritating, used as an occasional ornament in conjunction with other effects one can obtain a far more interesting and sophisticated sound. Of course this does not just concern the use of stringed instruments but others too, and voices.


            ------------------
            "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
            http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

            Comment


              #7
              I have to agree with two points made by Chaszz. First, I believe that modern players ARE probably more technically proficient than their predecessors. I think the modern player is generally better than they were fifty years ago for that matter. The tempo indications and metronome markings given by Beethoven could have been more of an urging than a realistic demand. Often a conductor will be constantly ahead of the orchestra if he or she feels the music is dragging.
              Second, vibrato is a natural instinct for most of us. I have talked to professional singers and wind players about this and the comments are usually, "we don't know how are why it happens. It just does." (Having said that, there are cultures such as Asian where non-vibrato is very common. Would Beethoven era musicians be in this category? I find that hard to believe).
              Of course, for string players there are four notes that are always played non-vib.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by urtextmeister:
                I have to agree with two points made by Chaszz. First, I believe that modern players ARE probably more technically proficient than their predecessors. I think the modern player is generally better than they were fifty years ago for that matter. The tempo indications and metronome markings given by Beethoven could have been more of an urging than a realistic demand. Often a conductor will be constantly ahead of the orchestra if he or she feels the music is dragging.
                Second, vibrato is a natural instinct for most of us. I have talked to professional singers and wind players about this and the comments are usually, "we don't know how are why it happens. It just does." (Having said that, there are cultures such as Asian where non-vibrato is very common. Would Beethoven era musicians be in this category? I find that hard to believe).
                Of course, for string players there are four notes that are always played non-vib.
                I doubt that the Joachim tradition of playing vibrato on virtually every note (which so influenced 20th century performance) would have been so prevalent in the early 19th century. Most 18th century musicians who wrote on the subject were of the opinion it should be used sparingly.

                ------------------
                'Man know thyself'
                'Man know thyself'

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by urtextmeister:
                  I have to agree with two points made by Chaszz. First, I believe that modern players ARE probably more technically proficient than their predecessors. I think the modern player is generally better than they were fifty years ago for that matter. The tempo indications and metronome markings given by Beethoven could have been more of an urging than a realistic demand. Often a conductor will be constantly ahead of the orchestra if he or she feels the music is dragging.
                  Second, vibrato is a natural instinct for most of us. I have talked to professional singers and wind players about this and the comments are usually, "we don't know how are why it happens. It just does." (Having said that, there are cultures such as Asian where non-vibrato is very common. Would Beethoven era musicians be in this category? I find that hard to believe).
                  Of course, for string players there are four notes that are always played non-vib.
                  I suggest what Beethoven requested regarding tempi was not to urge but a definite requirement. I think this down playing of earlier performer abilities is overdone, I suggest there were virtuosi in times past that could at least match todays standard with the same music.

                  Concerning the 4 notes, exactly, they are the 4 best most sonorous notes!

                  ------------------
                  "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
                  http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Rod:
                    I suggest what Beethoven requested regarding tempi was not to urge but a definite requirement. I think this down playing of earlier performer abilities is overdone, I suggest there were virtuosi in times past that could at least match todays standard with the same music.

                    Concerning the 4 notes, exactly, they are the 4 best most sonorous notes!

                    I don't doubt the level amongst virtuosi is little changed, but the overall orchestral level must have improved. By that I mean that the standards are not so violently fluctuating as they would have been - No doubt there were outstanding groups like the Mannheim orchestra and the private orchestras of Lobkowitz and Esterhazy.
                    I do agree that Beethoven's tempi markings are more than just a hint!

                    ------------------
                    'Man know thyself'
                    'Man know thyself'

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by urtextmeister:
                      Of course, for string players there are four notes that are always played non-vib.
                      Not really, since you can produce the same pitches as the three higher open strings by fingering on a lower string, and this is done often - sometimes to the complete exclusion of open strings. As for the lowest string, there is actually a way to get a fairly good vibrato effect on it.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Chris:
                        [B] Not really, since you can produce the same pitches as the three higher open strings by fingering on a lower string, and this is done often - sometimes to the complete exclusion of open strings. [B]
                        Of course you can do this, I know, I have a guitar! But the sound is never as sonorous as the open strings, this is a limitation of all stringed instruments I think, but especially the guitar, the higher up the neck you go the poorer the body of sound you get. But this is not really a vibrato issue.

                        Originally posted by Chris:
                        [B]
                        As for the lowest string, there is actually a way to get a fairly good vibrato effect on it.
                        [B]
                        And I know how to make even these open stings vibrate but I wouldn't recommend it. Or you could try and fit a tremulo arm to the violin!

                        ------------------
                        "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

                        [This message has been edited by Rod (edited August 23, 2003).]
                        http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Paganini and Liszt were amazing, in part, simply because they could play their own music.
                          Now, it is not unusual to hear fairly talented teenagers doing a decent rendition of Paganini caprices or Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies. In fact, it's expected.
                          I don't think there is any question that today's musicians are more technically proficient. It is not only in the field of music. Doctors are better than they used to be. Athletes can run faster than they used to.
                          Of course this is only sheer technical ability. When it comes to mastery of the style, that is a completely different story. The best musicians from Beethoven's time probably had an understanding of the style that we will never have. Just as, 100 years from now, when and if someone tries to interpret an opus from Michael Jackson's body of works, they will never capture quite the same flavor that he did.
                          Regarding tempo indications, I did not mean to imply that Beethoven was being approximate or vague. I can see him exaggerating slightly however to get his point across. If everyone played his music too slowly, I can see him putting in a metronome marking that might be unrealistic, but would lead players in the right direction.
                          Or, he could have been wrong. Yes, I just said that and lightning did not strike me dead. Seriously, I believe Beethoven was great was not perfect. Otherwise he would have emptied his bedpan more often.
                          And what about interpretation? There's a concept. The article speaks of Norrington adding a Crescendo here and there to great effect. WHAT? ADDING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT EXPLICIT IN THE SCORE! Yes, it happens. I think it goes back to natural instincts. I do not know of a single (good) musician who would see a phrase marked mf and play it that way every time it occurs in the score. Likewise, I can't imagine seeing a tempo in a Beethoven movement and adhering to it for the entire movement without a moment's deviation.
                          This is not justification for ignoring Beethoven's metronome markings. They are probably dismissed too readily by too many musicians. But I think we can take them with a grain of salt.

                          Vibrato. Who really knows? All of the
                          string players I know play and teach that you vibrate on almost every note. This is probably as wrong as playing Beethoven on a nine-foot Steinway. It is so embedded in our ears, however.
                          Except Rod's, of course.
                          I believe that our aesthetic sense is greatly influenced by our culture and what I have always heard is country western and pop singers singin' those good ol' straight tones that go thru ya like a truck on highway I80 and classical musicians playing with that lovely vibrato.
                          Will we throw out vibrato because it isn't authentic?
                          Good point, Chris, about string players, though I would like to know how you get a vibrato on the lowest open string. Shake your head back and forth while you play?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by urtextmeister:
                            Paganini and Liszt were amazing, in part, simply because they could play their own music.
                            Now, it is not unusual to hear fairly talented teenagers doing a decent rendition of Paganini caprices or Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies. In fact, it's expected.
                            I don't think there is any question that today's musicians are more technically proficient.
                            Technicallity is only one third of the equation. You can't even hear a good rendition of a relatively easy sonata like Pathetique these days. I have no doubt Beethoven would have done a better job of it than anything I have heard personally, god help him if he couldn't!

                            Originally posted by urtextmeister:

                            Or, he could have been wrong. Yes, I just said that and lightning did not strike me dead. Seriously, I believe Beethoven was great was not perfect. Otherwise he would have emptied his bedpan more often.
                            And what about interpretation? There's a concept. The article speaks of Norrington adding a Crescendo here and there to great effect. WHAT? ADDING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT EXPLICIT IN THE SCORE! Yes, it happens. I think it goes back to natural instincts. I do not know of a single (good) musician who would see a phrase marked mf and play it that way every time it occurs in the score. Likewise, I can't imagine seeing a tempo in a Beethoven movement and adhering to it for the entire movement without a moment's deviation.
                            This is not justification for ignoring Beethoven's metronome markings. They are probably dismissed too readily by too many musicians. But I think we can take them with a grain of salt.
                            I am not surprised that those who find beethoven to be musically at fault on occasion to suggest his music be performed in a different manner. Trouble is this spoils it for those of us who actually think Beethoven was not at fault and have to suffer one half-hearted performance after another.

                            Originally posted by urtextmeister:

                            Vibrato. Who really knows? All of the
                            string players I know play and teach that you vibrate on almost every note. This is probably as wrong as playing Beethoven on a nine-foot Steinway. It is so embedded in our ears, however.
                            Except Rod's, of course.
                            I believe that our aesthetic sense is greatly influenced by our culture and what I have always heard is country western and pop singers singin' those good ol' straight tones that go thru ya like a truck on highway I80 and classical musicians playing with that lovely vibrato.
                            Will we throw out vibrato because it isn't authentic?
                            Good point, Chris, about string players, though I would like to know how you get a vibrato on the lowest open string. Shake your head back and forth while you play?
                            Perhaps the only reason why music students are taught to use vibrato across the full length of all but the very shortest of notes is to cover up their lack of genuine talent?

                            ------------------
                            "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

                            [This message has been edited by Rod (edited August 23, 2003).]
                            http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Friends,
                              Is not the truth of the matter (like so many things) somewhere in the middle?

                              A.) If Beethoven didn't want his tempo markings observed, he wouldn't have been so much more specific about them than any composer before. "Andante con moto ma non troppo" (Op 130, 3rd mvmt.) had no reason to be so specific unless it was meant that way.

                              B.) However, he also said "that is the tempo, but just to start out" (this quote is from Thayer, and if pressed unduly, I will find it. 1200 pages is a lot to reread for such a simple purpose!). The way I understand this is that he not only understands the need for variety in tempo, but he advocates it.

                              I personally do not feel that adding unindicated dynamics, as long as they are complementary to the passage, has nearly the negative effect as the adding and subtracting of actual NOTES that is committed by some "musicians".



                              ------------------
                              Adieu,
                              Franz

                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              Adieu,
                              Franz

                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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