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Old 10-05-2017, 01:26 PM   #1
Humoresque
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Jordan Peterson in discussion with Camille Paglia

Two intellectual giants of North America discuss postmodernism and associated ideologies. Professor Jordan Peterson has volcanic talent and a brain the size of Jupiter and so does Dr. Paglia. I've posted this in a few places because it's just so important in pushing back against the tyranny which has become so much a part of modern life. Those of you of an intellectual inclination will really enjoy these two great thinkers engaging with each other, even if you don't completely agree. You'll need a good stiff drink and/or a cup of coffee. Enjoy! It's an utter pleasure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-hIVnmUdXM
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:39 PM   #2
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Gosh, can anyone resist such tempting and hyberbolic click-bait ("volcanic talent", "brain the size of Jupiter", "intellectual giants" and the importance of "pushing back against the tyranny...")? I sure can't, and I will be attending to the proposed link later this weekend. I can hardly wait.

In the meantime, I thought I'd do a quick background check on La Paglia. I came up with three links that cast her in a less gushing light:

1) https://youtu.be/ZTJT38_ty-M?t=85
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TofS9cBa1dw
3) http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...lon-interview/

Watch this space...
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:46 PM   #3
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Of course, you shouldn't attempt to watch it if you had to do a background check. The bien pensant are in overdrive because both of them have said what has to be said about modern tyranny. Brave, both of them. Formidable, certainly. Two of the world's leading public intellectuals are hardly 'click bait'. Well, maybe they are if you're used to consuming written material where conformity is the order of the day. I celebrate non conformity.

Both are the modern equivalents of Hitchens, who vacated the position involuntarily, and I'm personally grateful for that - especially Peterson. We need more bravery to face the bullies of this world, not less.

If you haven't heard of either of them you probably shouldn't bother: hyperbole alert!!

https://life.spectator.co.uk/2017/09...nsgender-wars/

And I'll pass on the invitation to 'watch this space', if you don't mind; I've posted this on half a dozen other site where the people have heard, or are keen to know about, these two great thinkers.

Last edited by Humoresque; 10-05-2017 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:00 PM   #4
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No, I meant your way of inviting us to check out the link was click bait ("brain the size of Jupiter", etc etc...). Certainly caught my attention, and certainly I'll check it out, given the hyperbole.

Bien pensant? I'm neither (i.e. neither God-fearing nor right-thinking).

The invitation to "watch this space" was to all forum members, not only your good self.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:34 PM   #5
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Unfortunately, it was the tone of the OP that got on my nerves, but I promise to give the link a fair listening. I mean, really, when you read "I've posted this in a few places because it's just so important in pushing back against the tyranny which has become so much a part of modern life...", is it just me that gets the faintest whiff of hysteria? Of anguished, pearl-necklace twisting? It reminds me of elderly bourgeois French ladies in the late 60s attempting to spit on Brigitte Bardot for upsetting the social order.

Last edited by Quijote; 10-05-2017 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Misunderstanding on my part of "bien pensant"
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:02 PM   #6
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I did have a quick sneak preview of the OP's proposed link and have to say that already my feathers have been ruffled by Jupiter-brained Peterson's unchallenged assertion vis-à-vis the "tricksters Derrida, Lacan and Fourcault..." Now, like the OP, I'm pretty unsure of my Derrida, Lacan and Fourcault, but does this not strike you as demagogy, even with our mere Mercury-sized brains?
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:05 PM   #7
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I really can't make many more comments tonight this side of the hemisphere, I'm teaching tomorrow and have to keep a fresh mind...
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Old 10-08-2017, 01:03 PM   #8
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Well, for all the hype, it was a pleasant and interesting way of spending almost 1'45" on a Sunday morning, and certainly they provided some food for thought: the various issues and polemics of modern life (described in terms somewhat overwrought by the OP as "tyrannies"), which mainly focused on critiques of postmodernism in US academia, gender politics, child rearing and feminism. The arguments were not new, by any means.
I found the whole video to be very US-centric. If there was one point I was in agreement with it would be the one concerning the Canadian Bill C-16 about the use of non-gendered pronouns: now there, I might agree about a form of "tyranny".

Last edited by Quijote; 10-08-2017 at 01:31 PM. Reason: Overwrought as opposed to hysterical
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:28 AM   #9
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None of your comments were arguments,; at best jejune, at worst merely the bully pulpit on display. You are not going to use those tactics to destroy my freedom and moral propriety. As Jordan says, "when you say something to somebody that they don't want to hear they'll often resort to abuse".

'Bien pensant' is not a compliment. University lecturers are not demagogues. Camille Paglia is not to be confused with the actor Anthony La Paglia. The problems they both discuss are far more widespread than the USA.

Wider reading recommended. And viewing. Here's a good place to start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP2WlfTiohw

And, oh, it's wonderful to have pearls to clutch!!

I'm done now with this site.

Last edited by Humoresque; 11-12-2017 at 05:39 AM. Reason: U-tube Clemson discussion
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humoresque View Post
None of your comments were arguments,; at best jejune, at worst merely the bully pulpit on display. You are not going to use those tactics to destroy my freedom and moral propriety. As Jordan says, "when you say something to somebody that they don't want to hear they'll often resort to abuse".

'Bien pensant' is not a compliment. University lecturers are not demagogues. Camille Paglia is not to be confused with the actor Anthony La Paglia. The problems they both discuss are far more widespread than the USA.

Wider reading recommended. And viewing. Here's a good place to start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP2WlfTiohw

And, oh, it's wonderful to have pearls to clutch!!

I'm done now with this site.
I thought you wanted to pass on my "Watch this space", nicht war, meine liebling? (See my post #2 and your post #3 above.)

I didn't engage in any arguments, merely responses to what you built up to be planet-shattering revelations. They weren't.

I'm not a bully, I reject that accusation; rather, I resort to sarcasm when dealing with fanatics. Clearly, it isn't always that effective.

Concerning bien pensant, if you read my "Edit" comment in the relevant post above, you would have seen that I corrected my initial (wrong) interpretation.

I'll pass, thanks, on your suggestions for further reading, they haven't been as enlightening as you intended; I'm comforted by the fact that Christopher Hitchens (for whom you profess admiration) had little time for La Paglia (an ironic way of referring to your belovèd Camille).

About your pearls, did you know that if they are visibly stained after prolonged and anguished clutching, you can mix a solution of lukewarm water and mild dish soap to clean them?

As to your being "done with this site", I look forward to reading you again in a few days or weeks... and probably under a new forum name. As you have done in the past.

Last edited by Quijote; 11-12-2017 at 08:13 PM. Reason: "Prolonged and anguished" replacing the original "sustained"
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Old 11-19-2017, 05:10 PM   #11
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One last comment then I'm really done dealing with you:
I see on other classical music forums that you are continuing your alt-right crusade and encountering a lot of push-back. It's not just me that reacts poorly to your political posts.
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