music software has made unbelievable leaps...

[Preston]

And where did you come up with those numbers? Are you aware of their costs? Are you privy to their private financial records? Do you know the direction they are taking with their company? Have you analyzed the market situation leading them to set this pricing? If $6000 is unreasonable for a virtual orchestra, why is $3000 reasonable?

Chris, I know I am bringing back a thread from a long time ago - but I have been thinking of this lately and never clarified correctly...

1. just a hunch - based around your questions (which is the primary reason)
and...
2. the prices of every other company that produces sample libraries

Just wanted to clarify.

[Chris]

No, I'm talking about Vienna Instruments Pro. Of course the video looks great - that is their marketing tool! But it is really just a better wrapper around the same thing. Don't get me wrong - if I used this every day at my job, I'd buy it, because it would make me more productive.

[Preston]

This is just a new piece of software for controlling the existing samples. I don't know. It seems OK, but unless I were a professional and I needed to pump things out quickly, I probably wouldn't bother with it. The free software that comes with the libraries seems good enough to me.

Are you thinking of Vienna Ensemble Pro? Because, the VI Pro is an entire new user interface and system for using the samples. The videos show some amazing things- much more control of the samples, expression, learning midi, etc.

Here are a couple of links to see if you are thinking of what I am talking about.

Vienna Instruments Pro:
http://vsl.co.at/en/65/71/1877/1528.vsl
http://vsl.co.at/en/211/497/537/1456/1481/1570.htm (videos)

Vienna Ensemble Pro:
http://vsl.co.at/en/211/497/1685/1693/1342.htm

[Chris]

Chris, have you had a chance to look at the Vienna Instruments Pro software?

This is just a new piece of software for controlling the existing samples. I don't know. It seems OK, but unless I were a professional and I needed to pump things out quickly, I probably wouldn't bother with it. The free software that comes with the libraries seems good enough to me.

[Preston]

Chris, have you had a chance to look at the Vienna Instruments Pro software?

I have been watching videos about it and it seems to be phenomenal software. Oh, how I love and hate VSL, !

Seriously though, it seems they have put a lot of work into VI Pro. And guess what? They have a 30% discount for students. I might have to take them up on that offer. I would need to improve my understanding of midi quite a bit though, .

[Preston]

I have installed the East West Piano libraries, and they sound unbelievable.

Though, I really, really hope desktop (such as, one desktop alone) computer hardware will catch to easily handling samples of this magnitude. Only one microphone position can be loaded if playing in real-time is what I want- which, it is one major thing I want. If 2 or 3 mic. positions are loaded the hard drive cannot keep up. I might should try a SSD drive. Though, I might be able to make some more configurations. When the sustain pedal is pressed sometimes it will begin crackle subtly at 20 voices and other times I can take it up to 300 voices. This is what makes me angry with this library- the fact, that it may be possibly a little buggy on the programming end. That, or I am doing something wrong. Though, to try and achieve a realistic sounding sampled piano, a lot of articulations must be sampled. Then they have to be programmed to work together. It seems there may be some minor programming glitches, at least for now. Hopefully, they will fix them at some point.

Either way, the samples sound great. It is similar, in a way, to owning 4 grand pianos!

[Preston]

...unfortunately- Democracy...

I know this is anything but a political forum, so I apologize for writing this. Though, I said the above without any explanation. I fall more along some form of Democratic Socialism- with restrictions on money, corporations, companies, etc. and some censorship- which has yet to be achieved, though, I believe that we are only at the beginning of the study of government, and there is much more to come. I do not at all support "free-for-all" Democracy where almost anything goes and Capitalism reigns.

Sorry, though, I felt I needed to clarify my position.

[Preston]

I am not saying those prices are the perfect pricing. I am just saying that they are more reasonable to the masses because they are more affordable.

Particularly, concerning the standard and extended individual libraries.

That is only my opinion.

[Chris]

And where did you come up with those numbers? Are you aware of their costs? Are you privy to their private financial records? Do you know the direction they are taking with their company? Have you analyzed the market situation leading them to set this pricing? If $6000 is unreasonable for a virtual orchestra, why is $3000 reasonable?

[Preston]

I accidently deleted this post because I was trying to quote it but accidently hit edit, then went to work. If there is anyway to bring it back that would be good?

[Chris]

That's just how business works. You set the price wherever it will yield maximum profit. That isn't greedy, it's a healthy company. If they were sacrificing worker safety for higher profits, for example, that would be irresponsible and wrong.

As I said, currently you can get everything, absolutely everything for $12,480. That's reasonable, considering the vast amount of samples you get with that. But that's EVERYTHING, and you don't need everything. Not even close. Because a lot of those instruments are really for special-use. If what you want is a virtual orchestra, you can get everything you need for about $6000, and that includes all the extended libraries. And that is more than reasonable for a professional piece of software. Really all you need for that is Orchestral Strings I, Orchestral Strings II, Woodwinds I, Brass I, and Percussion. That's about $5000 for the complete standard orchestra. Then maybe you throw some Solo Strings I in there or the Vienna Imperial Piano if you want that. Or the Symphonic Cube will even give you more instruments for around the same price. And again, that's buying direct. You should be able to get lower prices going through a third party seller.

Then you have the Special Edition, which is really the consumer-level product anyway. Or the downloadable instruments, which are a bit more capable, even. And they have many options for bundles, upgrading, etc. So I'd say they are actually pretty accommodating with their pricing.

Personally, if you are interested in aquiring something like this, I'd start saving, but hold off on buying. Technology moves fast, and in some years, I wouldn't be surprised if you could get something that sounds better than VSL does now for a mere fraction of the price. In the meantime, use the cheaper libraries to experiment and compose your pieces.

[Preston]

Well the extended libraries, to my mind, are very, very important. While they do not contain the basic articulations they do contain more articulations and very important articulations and playing techniques. I was talking about $350-$400 for the standard and extended libraries.

If it would be good for the company they would have done it.

I have no doubt. Let us keep in mind that the prices were over $25000 for the complete- for many years. That is the very problem, I have been trying to explain. Companies do what is better for the owners and executives of the company, and of course the company itself, because that is where all of the money comes from. I am not saying that the owners do not care for their product or company- they love it, respect it, etc. They just get greedy. Happens all of the time, with so many companies.

Should the best interests for a good, honest, truthful, etc. company not be about offering a product, honestly, such as- helping people and not just the company and the "big names" in the company?

Yes, they have professionals in economics who do study this for years. I agree. Do not be too eager to trust a large profit company. Most of these companies care for the quality of their product, truly, and how much money they can make without sacrificing the quality of the company nor the money of the executives.

Though, until I see statistics I stand by what I have written. Why, because I am convinced that this is a very greedy company. Yes, it may sound naive, seeing as I don't know the precise statistics- yet, I am convinced. If I am proven wrong then, well, so be it.

[Chris]

I was thinking of a price that would be more affordable to most (in the countries/continents they offer their product), such as around $5,000-$6000 for the complete. Then have the individual libraries available for purchase around $350-$400. Do you feel something around that pricing would still be good for the company?

That's not too far from what you have now. The "Vienna Super Package", which contains everything they have ever done, is $6,860, $12,480 if you want all the extended libraries too. But that contains a lot of special stuff that most people will probably never care about. You can get the "Symphonic Cube", which gives you everything in the standard orchestra, plus chamber and solo instruments for only $3,360, $7,470 with all the extended libraries. Looking at the individual libraries, you can get Orchestral Strings I, for example, for $535, $1,120 with all the extended libraries. Plus, keep in mind that that is if you buy direct. You can probably get lower prices going through a third party seller.

In any case, I don't know what setting the prices at the level you suggest would do, because I am not privy to all of the company's private information. All I can tell you is what I told you before - they have people whose entire job is figuring this stuff out. If it would be good for the company they would have done it. If it doesn't make sense to you, you have to consider that there are other factors that you may not have considered. For example, did you know it is possible to actually lose costumers by setting your prices too low? The reason for this is that your price point needs to reflect your quality and target users relative to your competition. If a studio is looking to purchase the best piece of software out there, and your price is too low, they will immediately disregard you, because they figure that at that price, you cannot possibly be the best. If VSL claims to be significantly above their competition, they need to price their product significantly above their competition to attract the users they are targeting. It's not a simple problem, and people study these issues for years in school.

[Preston]

Chris, I realized that I never stated the price I thought would be beneficial not only for all of the people but for the company also. When I was saying make the VSL libraries complete for a lower price, I was not saying make it cost the price of GPO! Then the company really probably would go bankrupt (within a matter of hours)! I was thinking of a price that would be more affordable to most (in the countries/continents they offer their product), such as around $5,000-$6000 for the complete. Then have the individual libraries available for purchase around $350-$400. Do you feel something around that pricing would still be good for the company?

The more I think about it the more I realize that the very problem we had with the conversation could have been because you thought I meant lower the price of the complete too substantially? The fault would then be mine, wholly. So I, thoroughly, apologize if that was the case.

[Preston]

Chris, we just have different beliefs, ideals, ideas, etc. towards companies, money, greed, etc. I stand by what I said, and you stand by what you said. So, it is probably best we agree to disagree.