What is Beethoven's weakest opus

[Chris]

About ten minutes in full score of an pre-Fidelio opera, "Vestas Feuer", still survives. He used some of its material in the later work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGZGSsk5K7c

I've always enjoyed this fragment, and I wish Beethoven had completed a second opera. But at least we have the magnificent Fidelio!

[Michael]

About ten minutes in full score of an pre-Fidelio opera, "Vestas Feuer", still survives. He used some of its material in the later work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGZGSsk5K7c

[Megan]

I think Beethoven found Opera a bit taxing. His one and only opera is Fidelio. I'm no sure if he attempted any other works for Opera.

[dahc]

Perhaps Beethoven took some of his compositions more seriously than others. But what I find about his body of work is, what I find in any artist, a reflection of his life.
One can't be objective. There are times in my life I love 'Fur Elise' and a time when I couldn't listen to it. But I happen to enjoy it as much as any piece of Beethovens' at this time.

[Harvey]

Out of the well known works I'd say 'Fur Elise' - I simply can't endure the piece!

My feelings exactly!

[Sorrano]

Thanks for sharing that; I enjoyed it, too.

How about the early cantatas? They certainly don't match up well to the masses.

In this thread I counted "Der glorreiche Augenblick" op. 136 among the weak pieces from Beethoven as everybody seems to do it. Now I listened to the work again and I must admit: I loved the music !! I never had given the piece a real chance.

Just listen to the finale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndElO-UccIE

and here the the whole work (sung in Italian, in unfortuneately only a historic recording): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJqdAo1R9P0

It has just wonderful parts! I think the work just suffers from the ridiculous lyrics ...

[gprengel]

In this thread I counted "Der glorreiche Augenblick" op. 136 among the weak pieces from Beethoven as everybody seems to do it. Now I listened to the work again and I must admit: I loved the music !! I never had given the piece a real chance.

Just listen to the finale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndElO-UccIE

and here the the whole work (sung in Italian, in unfortuneately only a historic recording): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJqdAo1R9P0

It has just wonderful parts! I think the work just suffers from the ridiculous lyrics ...

[Zevy]

My favourite of these works is Op.18/1 - I admit the others in the set don't greatly appeal, but they are still fine compositions.

Here is a fine example of Beethoven's clever mind. Although Op. 18/1 was composed after 18/2 and 18/3, he published it at the head of the set. It gives a great boost to the group. It's hard for me to imagine op. 18 in a different order...

[Zevy]

Well, if I have to choose it would be his early quartets. I don't know why, but I hate that sound of almost mozartian music. I don't know what's your opinion on this quarters, but I don't like them at all...

I love all of Mozart's quartets (besides the first, K. 80). Although the op. 18 quartets are often referred to as "Mozartian", it took me along time before I got used to them. They are closer in form to Mozart's works than the middle or late quartets, but they certainly are not Mozart.
I dislike the clichéd comparatives such as "The 1st or 2nd symphonies could have been written by Mozart", etc. Mozart was not Beethoven, and Beethoven was not Mozart.

[Michael]

Maybe we should enlist Beethoven's help in deciding which works were "weak".

One of my absolute favourites is the "32 Variations in C minor", to which the composer didn't deign to give an opus number.
The story goes that, many years after its composition, he heard somebody playing it and he asked who wrote it. When he was informed that it was himself, he shouted: "Beethoven - what an ass you were!"
I am still trying to figure out what he found wrong with this work but who am I to challenge Beethoven?

Another huge success during his lifetime was the beautiful melodic Septet for four strings and wind which was so popular that he arranged it for piano trio. He absolutely hated it afterwards and said that it was composed for "the rabble".
That's you and me, folks.

[Chris]

Interesting how Wellington's victory has been bounced back and forth through this thread. Just to add my bit, I have a piano version played by Steven Beck Hess 97. So Beethoven tried to extend the success of the piece with a transcription for piano of his own (or perhaps popular demand justified it). The piano used on the CD has a Turkish drum attached to it so once in a while the pianist pushes a pedal and bang! comes the drum. I will comment no more....

I have this disc too. It's a very interesting peak into the past - a popular work of the day, played on an instrument of the day.

[Sorrano]

We rarely hear any of the incidental music (like Egmont, for example), and I wonder about that needing to be on the list. The overture, specifically for Egmont, is top rate but the rest of the music?

As for the Choral Fantasy, it is a favorite of mine. However, I've heard some criticism of it (coming from music professionals) as a major work. Years ago I watched a performance of it with Rudolf Serkin and memory of the joy in his face as he played the piano part has never left me.

[Michael]

At least Beethoven didn't make the mistake that Tchaikovsky made in the 1812. The Russian composer picked two main tunes to depict the opposing forces: "God Save the Tsar" and the "Marseillaise" but the latter tune has such power and force (in this kind of work) that it steals the show every time it appears.

Beethoven picked "God Save the King" for the British forces but very wisely steered clear of the "Marseillaise" for the French. Instead he gave them "Malbrouk s'en va-t-en guerre" (or, as we know it, "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow") and it never fails to give me a hilarious picture of the French troops skipping and mincing onto the field. It's even funnier in the piano version.
However, I agree that the "1812" Overture is a much better work in this genre.

[Peter]

Thanks Peter. I did not not Vaughan Williams' quote but it is spot on!

Yes and the 4th is generally regarded as his greatest symphony, though it certainly isn't my favourite VW - I much prefer the 5th. The same goes for Sibelius - his austere 4th is regarded as his finest, yet again I prefer the 5th! So this is the nub of the matter - what we prefer is not always equal to the quality of the music! I think we are often reluctant to admit that the fault lies with us, not the music - we tend to give up early on what is difficult. I really ought to revisit those works now and try to know them better.

There is no doubt in my mind that Beethoven's Wellinton is a weak work cobbled together to suit the occasion and it is in the same league as Tchaikovsky's 1812 (which I rather like and prefer to the Beethoven) - Tchaikovsky admitted the 1812 was a load of bombastic tosh, but it is good fun!
Commenting on Wellington's victory, Charles Rosen wrote that 'Beethoven's contribution lacks the serious pretentiousness or the incorporation of ideology of Mendelssohn's Reformation Symphony, or of Berlioz' Symphonie funèbre et triomphale, but it is only the less interesting for its modesty.'

[PaulD]

Interesting how Wellington's victory has been bounced back and forth through this thread. Just to add my bit, I have a piano version played by Steven Beck Hess 97. So Beethoven tried to extend the success of the piece with a transcription for piano of his own (or perhaps popular demand justified it). The piano used on the CD has a Turkish drum attached to it so once in a while the pianist pushes a pedal and bang! comes the drum. I will comment no more....