Early Philharmonic Society

[PDG]

Michael, I'm sure if we had a pollen on whose puns were cleverest, you'd win. I'm waving the white flag (with black and yellow stripes) of defeat. But I'll get ya next time!...

Enough of waxing lyrical - time to buzz off out of this thread (and no one even mentioned Rimsky-Korsakov)......zzzzzzzzzz.......

[Michael]

You should be hanged by the nectar for that last one !

[PDG]

...and Beethoven did write some variations on the tune now known as "God Save the Queen" .......

Maybee he was thinking of Napoleon!

I hum it all the time.

[Michael]

PDG, we had better put an end to all this and beehive ourselves or else we will have the moderators swarming all over us!
I know this thread was rapidly going downhill - but we're not helping.
Mind you, the Sixth Symphony does open with a drone bass .................
and Beethoven did write some variations on the tune now known as "God Save the Queen" .......

[PDG]

Honey, don't! (Beatles for Sale)

A waspish response, Michael. Yes, I know the Beetles recorded this but I believe that Sting never did...

[Michael]

Well, Mike, it was of course composed by Beethoven. And that's definitely the buzz word around here.

Honey, don't! (Beatles for Sale)

[PDG]

Well, Mike, it was of course composed by Beethoven. And that's definitely the buzz word around here.

[Michael]

Sadly, no one ever read the small print. Still, we are not a mutual self-congratulational society, so all views are welcome. And I've always had a penchant for bees. Amazing creatures. By the laws of physics, they should not bee able to fly....

And why is the Eroica in E flat instead of Bee flat ?

I rest my case (it's quite heavy).

[Sorrano]

I'm sorry to butt in, but I'm a bit shocked that this forum provokes such anger. Isn't Beethoven about brotherhood?

I rather suspect that some enter the various forums to provoke heated discussions and often withdraw while these rage on. I've been associated with a number of gaming forums and often see how this all plays out. It's a pity, because the difference of opinions and ideas are what make this type of contact interesting.

[PDG]

Sadly, no one ever read the small print. Still, we are not a mutual self-congratulational society, so all views are welcome. And I've always had a penchant for bees. Amazing creatures. By the laws of physics, they should not bee able to fly....

[Hammerklavier]

I'm sorry to butt in, but I'm a bit shocked that this forum provokes such anger. Isn't Beethoven about brotherhood?

[Peter]

I had said this was closed. I had invited you to respond privately. Instead you are using the forum to slander me. Do you have an excuse for this kind of behavior? Or do you want to poison your entire board?

The rest of this is deleted.

There's no point in carrying on the topic in private. I am not slandering you, just asking you to explain your thoughts further and back the claims up with some evidence. You are over-reacting and if you do not wish the topic to continue on the forum (having started it in the first place by veering off your own interesting Philharmonic topic) you don't have to reply.

[Droell]

Oh well a response like that demonstrates your lack of argument and your reliance on fantasy. Honestly to say that the only thing Beethoven knew about Napoleon was bees, is from another planet. In anycase the Bee wasn't adopted as an emblem in the coat of arms until after the Eroica was composed.

I had said this was closed. I had invited you to respond privately. Instead you are using the forum to slander me. Do you have an excuse for this kind of behavior? Or do you want to poison your entire board?

The rest of this is deleted.

[Peter]

Peter, I'm not going to bother. If you want to continue, write me at dave@astroamerica.com, and before you do that, find out why Napoleon liked bees so much. Do some research. Get some facts, since you like them so much.

Oh well a response like that demonstrates your lack of argument and your reliance on fantasy. Honestly to say that the only thing Beethoven knew about Napoleon was bees, is from another planet. In anycase the Bee wasn't adopted as a Napoleonic symbol (in the coat of arms) until after the Eroica was composed.

[Droell]

David;

Beethoven nicknamed another piano sonata: opus 13 in C-minor "Pathetique." Is it playable without knowing some secret program? And is there a secret program for the other 30 un-nicknamed sonatas that would make them playable?

Dear Hofrat,

As I mentioned to Peter, I don't see the point in continuing this thread & suggest people write me directly at dave@astroamerica.com

As Alicia de la Rocha used to mention in her recitals, the Pathetique was derived from two associated piano works by Mozart. I forget which two, but you always hear them played together. One is a fugue. Beethoven essentially recomposed & popularized them. Peter wants facts, but I don't have facts. I only have what de la Rocha told us in concert in Hoch Auditorium at the University of Kansas c.1974. She played parts of Mozart & then compared it to Beethoven to make her points. It amounted to a mini-master class for the unwashed public. I was in the audience and that's the end of that story.

In the years since I have used that story to understand just what Beethoven did to change from first period to middle period, but I don't have any facts, just wild hunches & unsupported allegations, which do not belong on this board.

According to Schindler, there was a very distinct program for the sonata op. 90, but you will have to track his remark down. As I recall, Schindler said it was not unusual for Beethoven to poke fun at people in his music. Ries stated, "When he was composing, Beethoven frequently had a certain subject in mind, even though he often laughed at and inveighed against descriptive music, particularly the frivolous sort." (Beethoven Remembered, pg. 67-8)

But remember, Schindler, who was Beethoven's last secretary, made things up to suit himself, and Ries, his friend of 25 years, one-time secretary & long-time London business manager, is a fake. These were the friends he had! Peter will have to find real facts. I regret I cannot help him. I wish him luck.

Dave