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Serge
12-11-2000, 11:50 PM
I love this work. It is a very unusual piece, to be sure, and the theme is very reminiscent of his 'ode to joy' (as is the theme of the 6th symphony, 1st mov't). Does anyone else enjoy it? I believe it used to be the final work played at the Marlboro Music Festival in Vermont (or NH, or somewhere in New England). The ending is ecstatic.

Does anyone know why the work was composed? I don't come across much in the way of a reason in my readings.

Luis
12-12-2000, 12:17 AM
I like it very much, but I have no answer to your questions http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/frown.gif. Where in the 6th you hear something from the 9th? I hear something very similar to the Joy theme when it is first presented (on the 9th 4th mvt. 4:00)on the 3rd mvt of the 4th piano concerto (2:00)

[This message has been edited by Luis (edited 12-11-2000).]

Rod
12-12-2000, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by Serge:

Does anyone know why the work was composed? I don't come across much in the way of a reason in my readings.

I believe it was composed specifically as a finale piece for one of B's mammoth concerts. I expecially like the magnificent piano solo intro.

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

Serge
12-12-2000, 10:55 AM
Good to know. BTW, Luis, the very first opening bars to the 6th are very similar to the 'ode'; play it and see! I think Beethoven must have had a fascination for that melody.

Peter
12-12-2000, 12:59 PM
He did indeed have a fascination with it, having used it earlier in the song 'Gegenliebe' WoO.118 of 1795 - I have to say Serge I don't detect it in the 6th ! I think you are referring to the 3rd and 4th bars of the opening, but I think any similarity is very dubious.

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'Man know thyself'

PDG
12-12-2000, 04:52 PM
I, too, love the Choral Fantasy. As I understand it, the piano intro, of which Rod made comment, was improvised on the spot, by Beethoven, at his last major public appearance as a pianist, on Dec. 22nd, 1808; using the work to close a programme which had included the premieres of BOTH the 5th & 6th symphonies, the 4th piano concerto & sections of the mass, in C. What a night! And yet the natives were restless throughout! Proof that you can have too much of a good thing.....

I should like to know the English translation of the vocal parts. Anyone?

I agree with Serge that there is a similarity in the melodic patterns of the opening themes of the `Ode to Joy` & the `Pastoral`, 1st mvt. And as Luis pointed out, this theme is even more evident in op. 58, 3rd mvt. (orchestra, 1:20` in).

Luis
12-13-2000, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by PDG:
I should like to know the English translation of the vocal parts. Anyone?


Peter gave me this translation some time ago, so thank him. http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/smile.gif

Enticingly fair and lonely
sound the harmonies of our life,
and from a sense of beauty arise
flowers that bloom for ever.
Peace and joy flow hand in hand
like the changing play of the waves;
what was crowded together in chaos and
hostility
now shapes itself into exalted feeling.
When music's enchantment reigns
and poetry's consecration speaks,
wondrous things take shape;
night and storm change to light.
Outer peace, inner bliss
are the rulers of the happy man.
But the spring sun of the arts
causes light to flow from both.
Great things that have penetrated the heart
blossom anew and beautifully on high,
and the spirit that has soared up
is always echoed by a chorus of spirits.
Take them, then, you noble souls,
gladly, these gifts of noble art.
When love and strength are wedded together
mankind is rewarded with divine grace.


PS: Having finally heard them I think maybe the similarities with the 6th may be just casual.

PDG
12-14-2000, 08:05 AM
Many thanks, Luis!