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John Rasmussen
03-23-2001, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Andrea:
How can someone who calls herself a science teacher say that Beethoven was a raving lunatic? Does she not know how much science and music have in common?

It's interesting you should say that. Many scientists have also played musical instruments. My father was a physicist who also played violin. He died when I was young, but my mother has told me that, when he was at Oak Ridge during World War II, there was a complete orchestra among the scientific staff! Hmmm--What's the connection?

Among composers I know of, Camille Saint-Saens and Alexander Borodin were also scientists: Borodin was also a chemist, and Saint-Saens made advances in several scientific fields. Remember Leonardo da Vinci also.

apple_core_04
09-20-2002, 02:16 AM
During 5th period, my Science teacher made the comment that Ludwig Van Beethoven was a raving lunitic. Is this true?
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Chris
09-20-2002, 02:51 AM
Um...no. Did she give any reasons for why she thinks that?

Chaszz
09-20-2002, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by apple_core_04:
During 5th period, my Science teacher made the comment that Ludwig Van Beethoven was a raving lunitic. Is this true?
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There was one incident which I read about in a biography of Beethoven. I may have a detail or two inaccurate, but here is the gist of it.

Beethoven was walking one afternoon in the countryside for inspiration, as was his habit. After several hours, his attention was so inward that he lost his way and didn't realize it was getting dark. He discovered this and tried to find his way home thru the forest but couldn't.

He was wandering in darkness when he came upon a small village which had shut up for the night. He went round pounding on doors and shuttered windows crying out "Help me! I am lost! I'm Beethoven! I'm Beethoven!"

In his dishevelled state with hair flying and shouting, he was not believed. The constable was called and poor Beethoven was put in jail for the night!

In the morning, an art history professor was able to identify him from pictures he had seen. Beethoven was released and then escorted home.

Peter
09-20-2002, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by apple_core_04:
During 5th period, my Science teacher made the comment that Ludwig Van Beethoven was a raving lunitic. Is this true?
~*~*~*~*~apple~*~*~*~*~

I thought scientists were supposed to base their arguments on FACTS! Beethoven could be described as eccentric not a raving lunatic. Tell your science teacher that a raving lunatic could not produce the world's greatest music.

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'Man know thyself'

Joy
09-20-2002, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by apple_core_04:
During 5th period, my Science teacher made the comment that Ludwig Van Beethoven was a raving lunitic. Is this true?
~*~*~*~*~apple~*~*~*~*~

You have to let us all know why she made this statement?? What were you all talking about in the first place to make her say this
odd remark?

Joy

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited September 19, 2002).]

Joy
09-20-2002, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by Chaszz:
There was one incident which I read about in a biography of Beethoven. I may have a detail or two inaccurate, but here is the gist of it.

Beethoven was walking one afternoon in the countryside for inspiration, as was his habit. After several hours, his attention was so inward that he lost his way and didn't realize it was getting dark. He discovered this and tried to find his way home thru the forest but couldn't.

He was wandering in darkness when he came upon a small village which had shut up for the night. He went round pounding on doors and shuttered windows crying out "Help me! I am lost! I'm Beethoven! I'm Beethoven!"

In his dishevelled state with hair flying and shouting, he was not believed. The constable was called and poor Beethoven was put in jail for the night!

In the morning, an art history professor was able to identify him from pictures he had seen. Beethoven was released and then escorted home.



I've heard this story many times. Can you imagine? I bet the constable was embarrassed, but maybe not as much as our confused Beethoven! I believe the clothes he wore made him look like a 'bum' as well!

Joy

Joy
09-20-2002, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by Peter:
I thought scientists were supposed to base their arguments on FACTS! Beethoven could be described as eccentric not a raving lunatic. Tell your science teacher that a raving lunatic could not produce the world's greatest music.



Exactly!

Joy

Sorrano
09-20-2002, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by apple_core_04:
During 5th period, my Science teacher made the comment that Ludwig Van Beethoven was a raving lunitic. Is this true?
~*~*~*~*~apple~*~*~*~*~

All too often that which is misunderstood is shelved with an unsavory label rather than investigated until comprehended.

Andrea
09-20-2002, 11:14 PM
How can someone who calls herself a science teacher say that Beethoven was a raving lunatic? Does she not know how much science and music have in common? I think that she needs to look up the definition of the word science. Here is what the Encyclopedia Britannica says: "Science is any system of knowledge that is concerned with the physical world and its phenomena and that entails unbiased observations and systematic experimentation."

Albert Einstein said,"To raise new questions, new possibilities, to regard old problems from a new angle requires creative imagination and marks real advances in science." Beethoven is like the Einstein of the music world for he too questioned the music of those before him and with his creative imagination, Beethoven made huge advances in music.

Because Beethoven was going beyond the norm and creating a new world of music, some people may have seen him as being crazy. These were people who would not accept change. I am sure there were quite a few people who thought that Einstein too was a raving lunatic. Let's face it, they were both geniuses and misunderstood.

Rod
09-21-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Andrea:
Let's face it, they were both geniuses and misunderstood.

Mmm I agree, I can think of someone else you could add to that list....

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

Andrea
09-21-2002, 12:20 AM
Gee, Rod, I wonder who that could be?

Chris
09-21-2002, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by Rod:
Mmm I agree, I can think of someone else you could add to that list....

Originally posted by Andrea:
Gee, Rod, I wonder who that could be?

Stop it you guys; you're embarrassing me.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited September 20, 2002).]

apple_core_04
09-21-2002, 01:48 AM
First of all, my teacher is a male, not a female. I'm sorry that I didn't mention that in my first statement. I don't know why he said it. He thinks that he knows everthing anyway. Haha. He's a good teacher though.
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Peter
09-21-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Rod:
Mmm I agree, I can think of someone else you could add to that list....



That's very flattering, thank you!

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'Man know thyself'

Rod
09-21-2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Peter:
That's very flattering, thank you!



Touché!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

spaceray
09-22-2002, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Chris:
Um...no. Did she give any reasons for why she thinks that?

Why do you assume the teacher is a she?

Sorrano
09-22-2002, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by apple_core_04:
First of all, my teacher is a male, not a female. I'm sorry that I didn't mention that in my first statement. I don't know why he said it. He thinks that he knows everthing anyway. Haha. He's a good teacher though.
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All too often teachers have to be "experts" in every field. I would assume the teacher read one or two anecdotes that display Beethoven in a less than favorable circumstance and reasoned from those readings that Beethoven was a lunatic.

Peter
09-22-2002, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Sorrano:

All too often teachers have to be "experts" in every field. I would assume the teacher read one or two anecdotes that display Beethoven in a less than favorable circumstance and reasoned from those readings that Beethoven was a lunatic.

Maybe but hardly 'scientific' - teachers have an enormous responsibilty and many of these students who probably know nothing about Beethoven (and probably never will) simply believe the guy was a nutcase. We have had other examples here of 'teachers' telling their students B was black, gay or both! Most of all it is curious as to why he was mentioned at all in a science lesson!


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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited September 22, 2002).]

Forlorna
09-25-2002, 07:26 AM
Your science teacher knows little or nothing about the arts--especially music. Otherwise he would not have said something like that. Yes, Beethoven was possibly schizo-affective. He suffered from intense mood swings and was extremely paranoid, especially in his later years. He was also a genius who gave the world its greatest music. Your teacher probably listens to muzak and likes it.
I have a fabulous book entitled "Touched With Fire" by Kay Redfield Jamieson that delves into the strange link between bipolar disorder and artistic genius. The author doesn't say that all people who suffer from bipolar disorder are good artists--it's just that an inordinately high number of the worlds greatest writers and composers suffered from this dangerous illness.

Saggiact
09-27-2002, 11:47 PM
I am quite interested in this discussion. You're all right -- this science teacher probably should not have made this comment. It is absolutely untrue and probably does alter the impressionable opinions of many young students. We should all be revelling in the brilliance and genius of this man, not "spreading rumors" that he was a lunatic.

However, perhaps we shouldn't be too hard on this teacher. Maybe it was a comment taken out of context. Maybe this teacher is prone to exaggeration. Whatever the reason, let's realize what it inspired one student to do -- to look up the answer. Good for you Prilla, you had a question about something, you chose to question authority, and now you've sparked a fascinating discussion and made a lot of people really think.

Maybe it's better that the name Beethoven is mentioned in science class than not mentioned at all. We all know that many schools are being forced to cut back on teaching the arts, so it's quite possible the name Beethoven is foreign to many students. At least his name is mentioned at all. Sure, his legacy wasn't exactly represented in the most respectful and accurate way, but at least it was mentioned.

Chris
10-01-2002, 07:56 AM
Bump to account for time bug.

Sorrano
10-01-2002, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by John Rasmussen:
It's interesting you should say that. Many scientists have also played musical instruments. My father was a physicist who also played violin. He died when I was young, but my mother has told me that, when he was at Oak Ridge during World War II, there was a complete orchestra among the scientific staff! Hmmm--What's the connection?

Among composers I know of, Camille Saint-Saens and Alexander Borodin were also scientists: Borodin was also a chemist, and Saint-Saens made advances in several scientific fields. Remember Leonardo da Vinci also.


Don't forget that Einstein was a violinist, too. Perhaps if you think of music in terms of mathematics you might see some connection here.

apple_core_04
10-04-2002, 01:49 AM
Thanks you guys! I'm so excited to be apart of this forum. Actually, I do see a connection in the art of music and mathematics. I play the flute, the french horn, the mellophone and the trumpet in my school band and Math and Science are my two favorite subjects in school. Right now I'm in my English class in which I am doing a biography over L.V. Beethoven.

Rod
10-04-2002, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by apple_core_04:
Thanks you guys! I'm so excited to be apart of this forum. Actually, I do see a connection in the art of music and mathematics. I play the flute, the french horn, the mellophone and the trumpet in my school band and Math and Science are my two favorite subjects in school. Right now I'm in my English class in which I am doing a biography over L.V. Beethoven.

I know a few doctors who are good amateur pianists. Perhaps there is a connection with music and the medical arts, other than that all the docs came from middle class backgrounds!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin