PDA

View Full Version : Wagner on JS Bach


Chaszz
03-25-2001, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Rod:
Playing and conducting Beethoven is one thing, what Wagner actually composed is quite another!




What Wagner composed has rejuvenated my life and made me happy in a profound way in the past eight months.

His music and orchestration provides me with an overwhelming sense of life's beauties and has helped unleash a major new creative surge in my own painting and sculpture. I will always look back on the time when I discovered Wagner as one of the happiest times of my life.

Have you by the way tried to listen to what I posted to the Handel vs. Bach thread today? Unfortunately I don't think it can be heard without downloading it first. But I would look forward to reading what you think of it if you are able to listen to it.

Rod
09-30-2002, 06:08 PM
Since the original chain was deleted I thought I better repost this correction concerning my quote from Wagner, my memory not serving me well, though the outcome is much the same. The extract from the Oxford Music Dictionary is as follows:

...suffice to say that for many composers, and for countless listeners, Bach's music is supreme - to quote Wagner: "the most stupendous miracle in all music."

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited September 30, 2002).]

Peter
09-30-2002, 06:57 PM
Yes but you think this an an argument against Bach! We could go on with quotes about composers, it really doesn't prove anything. What about my point in the deleted chain that Beethoven's most enthusiastic comments re.Handel came on receiving H's complete works - a complete collection of Bach's work was not available to him?

------------------
'Man know thyself'

Rod
09-30-2002, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Peter:
Yes but you think this an an argument against Bach! We could go on with quotes about composers, it really doesn't prove anything. What about my point in the deleted chain that Beethoven's most enthusiastic comments re.Handel came on receiving H's complete works - a complete collection of Bach's work was not available to him?



It wasn't part of my argument. Just an observation. It related more to Beethoven not being the as large a musical influence on Wagner as is commonly perceived.

I responded in the other chain to the matter of Beethoven's comments re Handel also, quite comprehensively, but that too has gone. That he rated Handel above Mozart by at least 1817 indicates he must have heard a reasonable number of Handel works.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited September 30, 2002).]

Rod
09-30-2002, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Peter:
What about my point...


And what about my mp3s you have yet to comment on!?

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

Chaszz
09-30-2002, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Rod:
It wasn't part of my argument. Just an observation. It related more to Beethoven not being the as large a musical influence on Wagner as is commonly perceived.




Wagner contradicted himself quite a bit from year to year. The large number of highly laudatory comments he made about Beethoven throughout his life is probably better testimony to his feelings than one quote here or there on Bach.

I've read Cosima's diaries only for 1868- 72, so far. During that period, at least, there are a few respectful comments about Bach but many passionate ones about Beethoven. Also the number of Beethoven paino reductions which they played in the evenings was quite large.

Rod
09-30-2002, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Chaszz:
Wagner contradicted himself quite a bit from year to year. The large number of highly laudatory comments he made about Beethoven throughout his life is probably better testimony to his feelings than one quote here or there on Bach.

I've read Cosima's diaries only for 1868- 72, so far. During that period, at least, there are a few respectful comments about Bach but many passionate ones about Beethoven. Also the number of Beethoven paino reductions which they played in the evenings was quite large.

Playing and conducting Beethoven is one thing, what Wagner actually composed is quite another!


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

Chris
10-01-2002, 08:05 AM
Bump to account for time bug.

Rod
10-01-2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Chaszz:


...Have you by the way tried to listen to what I posted to the Handel vs. Bach thread today? Unfortunately I don't think it can be heard without downloading it first. But I would look forward to reading what you think of it if you are able to listen to it.



Well, I wanted to listen to it last night but I couldn't even access the Forum! I'll try again later today and give you an assessment. I have some German Arias From Handel ready to upload soon myself which are particularly nice.




------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin