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Petra Zabojnik
09-24-2000, 06:01 PM
Dear Sirs,
I would like to kindly ask you about all accessible informations about Beethoven Life Mask. This mask was manufactured in 1812 or 1813 in Teplitz ( Teplice ) in Czech Republic.

On the bottom of mask was engraved :
Gebruder Micheli
Berlin
Beethoven
Teplitz 1812
Kontrollierer Abguss

On hte bottom of mask was a little circle´s check with sign : Beethovenhaus Bonn.

Can you please send me informations how much pieces of Beethoven Life Mask was manufactured in 1812, where they are occur at this time and how type of material was used for this mask. I would like to know if exist any others identifications symbols.
Thank you for your help

Petra Zabojnik
P_Zabojnikova@hotmail.com

Peter
09-26-2000, 11:01 AM
Petra, it seems you've found a hard one here! I'm not certain about this, but I think I read that Beethoven lost patience whilst the mask was being cast and threw it on the floor where it broke into pieces. It was put back together again and as you know, used as the basis for the bronze bust (1812) by Kleine - I have no more information I'm afraid, but if you find anything else out from another source, please post it here and let us know. Thanks.

Rod
09-26-2000, 12:16 PM
A few copies of the life mask exist, photographs of which I have seen in books about Beethoven. However much of the detail is lost in these copies. If one sees the original one notices how severely pock-marked his face was at this time, if I remember correctly, the result of disease in his youth.

Rod



------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

Michael
09-26-2000, 02:31 PM
Just as a matter of interest, there were replicas of this life mask available about this time last year. They were advertised in various classical music magazines as part of the millennium hype. I can't find the ad at the moment and I can't remember any other details.
Michael

AeolianHarp
09-06-2014, 12:01 AM
Is this the original life mask? There are so many pics online- I don't know which is the original.

http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/262/wm/pd2759909.jpg

The detail on this is lovely- you can see his eyebrows.

AeolianHarp
09-06-2014, 01:10 AM
I've edited him; doesn't he look nice! :)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/edwardianpiano/Ludwigvanlifemask_zpsd2d35841.jpg (http://s123.photobucket.com/user/edwardianpiano/media/Ludwigvanlifemask_zpsd2d35841.jpg.html)

grace65
09-06-2014, 01:40 AM
This is what I have read about Beethoven's life mask. In 1812 Andreas and Nanette Streicher commissioned Franz Klein to make a bust of Beethoven so that they could display in their piano showroom. The first attempt of making the mask was unsuccessful as Beethoven started to panic, (he had straws in his nose) as he felt he couldn't breath, so he jumped out of the chair and the mask crashed down onto the floor. Somehow the Streicher's convinced Beethoven to try again, (don't ask me how as Beethoven was very stubborn), and the second attempt was a success.

As for the mask I have one, my husband made a bust of Beethoven out of it. You can get these masks from the Beethoven-haus in Bonn and even on e-bay. The ones on e-bay are cheap and nasty but they are better than nothing. It still gives you an idea of what his facial features were like. They say on the original mask you can see the scars of his pock marks but of course these do not appear on the cheaper copies. :)

Note: That Beethoven also has a death mask. You can tell the difference between his life and death masks, as the cheeks are hollow and the face in general is thin on the death mask.

grace65
09-06-2014, 01:45 AM
Is this the original life mask? There are so many pics online- I don't know which is the original.

http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/262/wm/pd2759909.jpg

The detail on this is lovely- you can see his eyebrows.

Yes, this is Beethoven's life mask. This looks more or less like the one I have displayed on my piano. :)

AeolianHarp
09-06-2014, 01:57 AM
Yes, this is Beethoven's life mask. This looks more or less like the one I have displayed on my piano. :)

So this is the original one Grace? I don't think he has that many "pock marks"- Gerhard von Breuning said there weren't that many.

I think Joseph Haydn may have had more- one woman he met said he left a very unfavourable impression on her because of it. Poor Haydn! Though many people had smallpox scars those days- Mozart was another.

AeolianHarp
09-06-2014, 02:01 AM
This is what I have read about Beethoven's life mask. In 1812 Andreas and Nanette Streicher commissioned Franz Klein to make a bust of Beethoven so that they could display in their piano showroom. The first attempt of making the mask was unsuccessful as Beethoven started to panic, (he had straws in his nose) as he felt he couldn't breath, so he jumped out of the chair and the mask crashed down onto the floor.

I don't blame Ludwig for that- it must have been unpleasant.


Somehow the Streicher's convinced Beethoven to try again, (don't ask me how as Beethoven was very stubborn), and the second attempt was a success.


Maybe they bribed him with some nice wine lol.


As for the mask I have one, my husband made a bust of Beethoven out of it. You can get these masks from the Beethoven-haus in Bonn and even on e-bay. The ones on e-bay are cheap and nasty but they are better than nothing.


You husband sounds very artistic!


It still gives you an idea of what his facial features were like. They say on the original mask you can see the scars of his pock marks but of course these do not appear on the cheaper copies. :)


The life mask is really nice, he looks so noble! It also helps one judge how accurate some or the portraits are or are not.


Note: That Beethoven also has a death mask. You can tell the difference between his life and death masks, as the cheeks are hollow and the face in general is thin on the death mask.

Oh I know...poor Ludwig.:(

AeolianHarp
09-06-2014, 02:12 AM
Oh I found it Grace! With the seam marks from the broken pieces! Wow - never seen this before...

He hasn't got that many pock marks at all! I have seen photos of people with wayyyy more pock marks that that and puckered skin etc.

http://absadmin.users.sonic.net/schulz/pages/page105.html

grace65
09-06-2014, 04:31 AM
So this is the original one Grace? I don't think he has that many "pock marks"- Gerhard von Breuning said there weren't that many.

I think Joseph Haydn may have had more- one woman he met said he left a very unfavourable impression on her because of it. Poor Haydn! Though many people had smallpox scars those days- Mozart was another.

I don't know if it's the original or a copy but it is identical to the one I have.

AeolianHarp, just like you I thought Beethoven would've had more pock marks. I'll just quote what Gerhard Von Breuning wrote in his biography about Beethoven's pockmarks. "The unsightly red pockmarked round face framed by a mane of thick black hair, calls for correction in that his face was not at all red and pockmarked but spotted here and there with brown smallpox depressions, as clearly in the mask of his face taken durining his life-time, in 1812. There is of course a photo of Beethovens life mask in his book.

Unfortunately smallpox was very common back then. I got the chickenpox when I was 29 years old. I was left with a tiny spot on my nose. "Laughing".

grace65
09-06-2014, 05:00 AM
I don't blame Ludwig for that- it must have been unpleasant.




Maybe they bribed him with some nice wine lol.

Yes that probably would have done the trick, but as Peter mentioned and the imaged that you posted it was unlikely that he got a second attempt getting a cast. Poor Franz would have had to stick it together. Lucky for us that the plaster had set. :)



You husband sounds very artistic!

My husband is very gifted and he'll try his hand at anything. He did have a lot of problems making my bust of Beethoven, but he persevered and now all he has to do is make the stand. Beethoven has been painted in gold and his chin is slightly raised so he looks very proud and noble.




The life mask is really nice, he looks so noble! It also helps one judge how accurate some or the portraits are or are not.

Beethoven does look very noble. Unfortunately, I think that a lot of the artist got Beethoven's nose wrong, but then again Beethoven wasn't a patient person and wasn't going to sit for a portrait for a long time, and there were no photos back then to copy from.



Oh I know...poor Ludwig.:(

It is very sad. The last 3 months of his life was a living hell. :(

AeolianHarp
09-06-2014, 01:36 PM
I don't know if it's the original or a copy but it is identical to the one I have.


Lovely. :)


AeolianHarp, just like you I thought Beethoven would've had more pock marks. I'll just quote what Gerhard Von Breuning wrote in his biography about Beethoven's pockmarks. "The unsightly red pockmarked round face framed by a mane of thick black hair, calls for correction in that his face was not at all red and pockmarked but spotted here and there with brown smallpox depressions, as clearly in the mask of his face taken duriing his life-time, in 1812. There is of course a photo of Beethovens life mask in his book.


Yes, I have Gerhard's memoirs as an ebook. Some day I will get a hard copy. The whole book is very poignant and moving- Gerhard wrote so vividly. Maybe some people liked to embellish how many smallpox marks Ludwig had because it was the only way they could put him down- they certainly couldn't put him down over his talent and deep spiritual convictions. Also, he was known to be a bit hit and miss shaving and often cut his face, so maybe he had some scars/marks from his shaving knife too! The redness- probably people said that after meeting him after he'd been on one of his walks and his cheeks were flushed from being hot in the sun. The lyre portrait from 1803 shows him with flushed cheeks, like he's been out walking.
So, we could describe him as rugged, which possibly was not "fashionable" but he was natural, masculine and unique looking.:)
As for his glorious hair- you can see from his surviving locks that it was dark brown not black- but again people often say black for dark brown hair.


Unfortunately smallpox was very common back then. I got the chickenpox when I was 29 years old. I was left with a tiny spot on my nose. "Laughing".


I got it when I was about 4. I have a scar by one of my eyebrows.

grace65
09-07-2014, 09:44 AM
Lovely. :)




Yes, I have Gerhard's memoirs as an ebook. Some day I will get a hard copy. The whole book is very poignant and moving- Gerhard wrote so vividly. Maybe some people liked to embellish how many smallpox marks Ludwig had because it was the only way they could put him down- they certainly couldn't put him down over his talent and deep spiritual convictions. Also, he was known to be a bit hit and miss shaving and often cut his face, so maybe he had some scars/marks from his shaving knife too! The redness- probably people said that after meeting him after he'd been on one of his walks and his cheeks were flushed from being hot in the sun. The lyre portrait from 1803 shows him with flushed cheeks, like he's been out walking.
So, we could describe him as rugged, which possibly was not "fashionable" but he was natural, masculine and unique looking.:)
As for his glorious hair- you can see from his surviving locks that it was dark brown not black- but again people often say black for dark brown hair.





I got it when I was about 4. I have a scar by one of my eyebrows.

Ries says in his biography that Beethoven was so clumsy that he was surprised that Beethoven didn't accidently slit his own throat with the blade.

As for his rugged look, Beethoven was the George Clooney of the 1800's. *laughing*. :)

AeolianHarp
09-07-2014, 01:22 PM
Ries says in his biography that Beethoven was so clumsy that he was surprised that Beethoven didn't accidently slit his own throat with the blade.


Yes and Beethoven would drop and break things and spill ink all over his piano.:D


As for his rugged look, Beethoven was the George Clooney of the 1800's. *laughing*. :)


LOL. I don't mind George Clooney, but I think Beethoven is far more interesting a guy.