PDA

View Full Version : Violin Concerto


Peter
01-30-2001, 04:57 PM
I wonder if anyone has heard the arrangement of the Violin Concerto for Clarinet ? I can imagine the slow movement would work, but what about the other movements ? Whilst on the subject of this most sublime of concertos, I'd be interested to hear your favourite recordings.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

Chris
01-30-2001, 05:42 PM
I like Josef Suk playing this one. It's slow (perhaps slower than it should be), but I like it that way. I've never heard the clarinet version of it, and am not that interested in it, really. I might check it out if I find it cheap, though. You can never have too much Beethoven, after all.

Michael
01-30-2001, 05:55 PM
I had a loan of the clarinet arrangement some months ago and I just gave it one listen. I'm sure clarinet players will be glad to have it in their repertoire but it's not for me. I think it is of curiosity value only like the arrangement for piano - although the latter is of far more interest being Beethoven's own. It's worth trying the clarinet version on an unwary listener and watching his or her face when the soloist comes in!
My favourite version of the Violin Concerto, and this may seem an odd choice, is by Zino Francescatti with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra conducted by Bruno Walter. For a start, Walter gets the tempo just right - not too fast. Set against this is Francescatti's rather nervous and wiry tone which might not be to everybody's taste, but I think it works well against Walter's smooth backdrop. I have several other versions but the problem with this concerto (for me) is that it can sound too bland at times. Francescatti certainly avoids this.
Anne-Sophie Mutter with Karajan isn't bad either.

Michael

amadeus
01-30-2001, 05:59 PM
I actually just got my first recording of this a week ago. Perlman & Giulini
Since this is my only recording of the entire piece, I cant really make a judgement to who has the best.

But I can say that I find this recording to be amazing. I have not stopped listening to it since I got it. I knew the concerto was going to be good(cause I have heard excerpts from the piece before) but I was literally floored when I heard it.

Untill I heard this in its entirety I was convinced that Mozart had the best works based around the violin. It changed my mind real quick..

I think I also heard that Stern has a great recording of this work.

Michael
01-30-2001, 06:11 PM
I wish I were you, Amadeus, hearing the Violin Concerto for the first time.
I was just about to amend my last message to include the Stern version when I saw you beat me to it. I presume it is the one with Bernstein and the NYSO - an excellent version. Bernstein takes it a tiny bit faster than Bruno Walter but it's still slow enough for me. You can't rush this piece.

Michael

Peter
01-30-2001, 06:21 PM
What bothers me about most recordings is the tendency to drop the tempo in the G minor development section of the 1st movement, yet there is no such indication in the score - this is a left over from the Romantic tradition - apparently Joachim used to play this section at half speed!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

Michael
01-30-2001, 10:04 PM
It doesn't bother me all that much unless they slow it down to a crawl. After all, it is one of Beethoven's longest movements so maybe a small change of tempo isn't such a bad thing? Also, the slow movement proper is on the short side (this is not a criticism of it - as if!)
There are other works where unwarranted changes of tempo bother me, notably the central episode of the "Harp" Quartet where everybody (even the Italianos) wallow in slow motion (although I am not a hundred percent certain whether a tempo change is indicated in the score). The only players I have come across who preserve the same tempo all through this movement are the Hungarians.

Michael

chrisg
01-30-2001, 10:35 PM
My problem with most performances of the Violin Concerto is that they come off as two slow movements followed by a finale. Sublime works fine, but this music can take some speed and muscle; for that approach I've never heard any to match the famous Jascha Heifetz / Munch, BSO recording.

cg

[This message has been edited by chrisg (edited 01-31-2001).]

Serge
01-31-2001, 02:09 AM
The violin concerto sounds very nice when played by clarinet. I sampled the latest EMI disc (forget who was on it) a couple of months ago but couldn't really justify spending $28 with tax on a clarinet version of a piece I already own two versions of.

As far as pacing goes, sometimes the 1st mov't sounds too repetitive, so a quick pace sits well with me. If it goes lugubriously, it can seem like Ludwig was writing just to fill time. Nevertheless, it has proven itself to be probably the most played and popular of all v.c.'s, so I suppose not many people feel this way.

Peter
02-01-2001, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by amadeus:

Untill I heard this in its entirety I was convinced that Mozart had the best works based around the violin. It changed my mind real quick..




Does this mean we can expect a change of name from Amadeus to Ludwig ! Mozart's Violin concertos are very fine and were for a long time very much underrated , but I have to agree that the Beethoven is a greater work. Have you heard the arrangement of this concerto for piano and orchestra Amadeus? It is of interest (particularly for the highly original cadenzas Beethoven wrote with timpani and piano - I have a version of these cadenzas arranged yet again, for Violin and timpani - it really is quite electrifying!)

------------------
'Man know thyself'

amadeus
02-01-2001, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Peter:
Does this mean we can expect a change of name from Amadeus to Ludwig ! Mozart's Violin concertos are very fine and were for a long time very much underrated , but I have to agree that the Beethoven is a greater work. Have you heard the arrangement of this concerto for piano and orchestra Amadeus? It is of interest (particularly for the highly original cadenzas Beethoven wrote with timpani and piano - I have a version of these cadenzas arranged yet again, for Violin and timpani - it really is quite electrifying!)



NO NO NO. There's something about the name Amadeus that just sticks out in head. Look at my e-mail its jpamadeus@hotmail.com. I took a liking to this name along time ago.

And I should probably clear up the fact that Beethoven is, has, and will always be my favorite composer, although I have the name of another great one. The two of these guys are in my mind "untouchable". I said to someone before that If Ludwig is a 10 on a 1-10 scale I put Wolfgang at 9.8.

Peter to answer your question. No I haven't heard an arrangement for piano and orchestra for this concerto. I was unaware that one existed. I'll gurantee you that in the next few months I'll have one though. any suggestions to who I should get?

Plus has anyone heard the performance of the violin concerto that I mentioned. Perlman and Giulini. I would like to know if what I'm listening to and enjoying immensely is one of the better recordings. Or does it get even better?

Peter
02-01-2001, 09:19 PM
Amadeus is a very nice same, so stick with it ! I agree with your rating of Mozart and Beethoven also - My top 5 composers are Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Schubert and Handel.

The arrangement for piano was done by Beethoven himself at the request of Clementi in London. I don't actually have a recording of it as I regard it as inferior to the Violin version - it is the cadenza that interests me most and I have misplaced my version of this - when I find it, I'll let you know. The version of the concerto I have is the same as Chrisg - Heifetz/Munch BSO.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

chrisg
02-02-2001, 01:32 AM
Plus has anyone heard the performance of the violin concerto that I mentioned. Perlman and Giulini. I would like to know if what I'm listening to and enjoying immensely is one of the better recordings.

Or does it get even better?

An excellent recording is any one that you listen to and enjoy immensely. In works as great as this, it's worth having another just for a different take. I recommend Heifetz/Munch, but you can't really go wrong with Perlman in anything.

Regarding the piano version, it always sounded somewhat watered down to me until I got this one:

Olli Mustonen
Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie
Jukka-Pekka Saraste, Cond.
London, 443 118-2

As an interpretation, it's very similar to the Heifetz version I like so much. Terrific drive and exuberance from all concerned.

cg

Peter
02-02-2001, 04:04 PM
Amadeus I've found my recording with Beethoven's cadenzas for the piano version !

The Cadenzas were adapted for Violin by Wolfgang Schneiderhan who is the soloist on this recording with Eugen Jochum and the Berlin Philharmonic. These cadenzas are far closer to Beethoven's intentions than anything produced later by the likes of Joachim. The effect produced with the timpani is quite electrifying and totally original - I know of no other concerto that uses this combination.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

Martha
02-06-2001, 10:38 PM
Hi, I LOVE the piano version of THE VIOLIN Concerto but wouldn't want to only have it on piano. I really think(to my ears)that it is suited to the voice of the violin. I read something that Doctors think because of the type deafness Beethoven had,before the deafness he would have preferred bass notes and sounds and that's why his violin concerto is what it is. I think it's because B wrote it that makes it what it is (not just one thing).
Also for a side-note.Our Prof.told us his grandmother would refuse over and over to allow him to "take violin lessons" so--he played the recording of the Beethoven Violin Concerto and she said,"OH,I DIDN'T KNOW!" and arranged for his lessons that week!
I heard Y.Menuen(my spelling is terrible)on a television(old)show said before playing this concerto that he never bothered saying "the Beethoven Violin Concerto #1" he only said "THE VIOLIN CONCERTO"!

------------------
Martha

PDG
02-21-2001, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Peter:

I wonder if anyone has heard the arrangement of the Violin Concerto for Clarinet ? I can imagine the slow movement would work, but what about the other movements ? Whilst on the subject of this most sublime of concertos, I'd be interested to hear your favourite recordings.


Peter, I`ve not heard the clarinet version. Surely, the concept is too grand for a woodwind instrument? Who wrote the cadenzas? Is it still in D?

I recommend the Naxos/Jando recording of the piano version (op.61a). It is coupled with a fine recording of the Triple Concerto, the disc running for 80 minutes.

------------------
Peter (PDG)

Peter
02-21-2001, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by PDG:
Peter, I`ve not heard the clarinet version. Surely, the concept is too grand for a woodwind instrument? Who wrote the cadenzas? Is it still in D?




I presume the key is the same. For a recording of the Violin concerto which includes B's Cadenzas for the piano version (arr.Violin) I recommend Chamber Orchestra of Europe - Nikolaus Harnoncourt/Gidon Kremer -Teldec 9031-74881-2



------------------
'Man know thyself'

Luis
02-22-2001, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by PDG:

I recommend the Naxos/Jando recording of the piano version (op.61a). It is coupled with a fine recording of the Triple Concerto, the disc running for 80 minutes.



I second that recommendation! The sound of this recording is so sharp and intimate! Good stuff indeed!

PDG
02-22-2001, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Peter:
I presume the key is the same. For a recording of the Violin concerto which includes B's Cadenzas for the piano version (arr.Violin) I recommend Chamber Orchestra of Europe - Nikolaus Harnoncourt/Gidon Kremer -Teldec 9031-74881-2


Thanks, I shall purchase forthwith. Can`t imagine the cadenzas being as effective as Kreisler`s, though.

------------------
Peter (PDG)

Rod
02-22-2001, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by PDG:
Thanks, I shall purchase forthwith. Can`t imagine the cadenzas being as effective as Kreisler`s, though.


Check out Bruggen's effort on Phillips with period instruments, you'll have heard nothing like it. The first movement is circa 21 mins with the long violin and drum cadenza! Though I would not regard the violinist's technique as 'authentic', quite modern infact. But for once it sounds like were listening to a real Beethoven concerto!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin