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Peter
01-31-2001, 10:43 AM
It seems extraordinary that Beethoven was so unaquainted with Schubert and his music - In March of 1824, the Schuppanzigh quartet (more associated with performances of Beethoven's quartets) gave a public performance of Schubert's A minor Quartet. The publisher Nageli had also written to Carl Czerny informing him of the excellence of Schubert's A minor piano sonata. Was Beethoven unaware of these 2 events? As Schubert was not a performer, he had difficulty in getting his music published, unlike the virtuosos Moschelles and Kalbrenner who's inferior works, the publishers clamoured for. I also think it odd that Schubert should have chosen a relatively minor work of his - a set of variations on a song (Op.10) to dedicate to Beethoven - wouldn't a work such as the song 'Erlkonig' have made a far more favourable impression on the great man?

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'Man know thyself'

Chris
01-31-2001, 06:20 PM
That is odd, actually. And that song would have been a good choice - it's one of my favorite works by him!

Michael
02-01-2001, 01:40 AM
Beethoven's own aborted attempt at setting the "Erlkonig" can be sampled (in Midi) at the Unheard Beethoven site. Ignore the "completed" version and go for the sketches. A fine melody - I wonder why he never completed it.

Michael

Peter
02-01-2001, 10:57 AM
Since we have recently been discussing 'the encounter' with Mozart, it comes to mind that there is just as much speculation regarding B's encounter with Liszt and Schubert ! Beethoven certainly loves leaving us a mystery (not to mention the Immortal beloved!)

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'Man know thyself'

euphony131
02-02-2001, 03:05 AM
Regarding why Beethoven was so unacquinted with Schubert -- that probably had more to due with Schubert since he was reportedly so diffident before the Master that he trembled at the very notion of sharing the same room with B. A real Milquetoast of a guy that Schubert. Left some incredible, forceful music, but he himself had like this awe-struck, glazed-over manner where B. was concerned -- I suppose a measure of both his boundless reverence and "quirkiness."

As for Liszt -- I've read that they met when Liszt was a mere lad of 11, a piano prodigy.

Peter
02-02-2001, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by euphony131:
Regarding why Beethoven was so unacquinted with Schubert -- that probably had more to due with Schubert since he was reportedly so diffident before the Master that he trembled at the very notion of sharing the same room with B

My point Euphony was that important people in Beethoven's life - Schuppanzigh, and Czerny were familiar with at least two great works bt Schubert - the Quartet in A minor (premiered by Schuppanzigh) and the A minor Sonata - Did they not bring this to Beethoven's attention? That two great composers were living in the same city at the same time and had no real contact is bizarre ! (even allowing for Schubert's reticence). It is from Schindler (that most unreliable of sources) that we are told of Beethoven's sudden death-bed conversion to Schubert's music. I do think Schubert remains one of the most tragic and bizarre cases in musical history !

Regarding the Liszt encounter, I am aware of the supposed meeting of the two men and the famous kiss - Beethoven is also reported to have attended a concert by the 12 year old prodigy, yet there is no hard evidence to substantiate this. For one thing Beethoven rarely attended others concerts as by this time (1822/3) his deafness was way advanced.

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'Man know thyself'

PDG
02-21-2001, 08:42 PM
How can anyone who loves Beethoven, not also admire Schubert? He is my 2nd favourite composer, & among the greats I`d say he was the most tragic. He was certainly the most unappreciated during his own lifetime. As recently as 1928, Rachmaninov confessed to not knowing that S had written any sonatas.

To realise that he wouldn`t live much beyond his 30th birthday, & then manage to elevate his genius so miraculously was an achievement on a par with B coming to terms with his deafness. This shy, sensitive man knew, probably better than any other contemporary, the true worth of B, & was somehow both intimidated & inspired simultaneously by him. Even leaving aside the late quartets, trios, etc., to have successfully stretched sonata-form to a point beyond that of his (then) recently deceased idol was a feat almost beyond human comprehension. And even though S was not a virtuoso musician, he is still so much more than a "poor man`s Beethoven".

Peter, I don`t know whether, or if not, why Schuppanzigh did not, tell B about the works you mention, but what`s for sure is that the greatest songwriter &, arguably, melodist in all musical history still awaits his definitive "Life & Works" study.

I was moved when I read this short summation of the Austrian: "Through all of the darkness & our uncertainty of Schubert, shines his music: the voice of one crying in the wilderness."

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Peter (PDG)