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stout
01-25-2001, 08:51 PM
My mind is not working as well as it should while Iam writing this. But I do know at the time I was not drinking...I do not think.
It is possible that Iam thanking the wrong person...or spelled his sn wrong. If I did, forgive me, I implore you.
I have written topics wondering if Beethoven was ever not really an outcast, but more of the non-socializing type(yes I know I spelled it wrong!) But with his circumstances who would be????
I wonder if Beethoven was an outcast or something because i somtimes see myself like that. A 16 yr old kid composing music and being treated like -well, like iam not there. I always thought girls would fall in love with composers like I had read about. Clearly I was wrong.They totally ignore me. Reject. I am sorry-I did not mean to preach.
I wonder, does anybody here compose as well?
Regards.
C.

~Leslie
01-25-2001, 11:02 PM
Whoa, Slow down there Stout, yr only sixteen years old. You have to pay your dues a little bit there first.

My impression of Beethoven has always been that , yes, he was "different", and he certainly knew he was.

One of the problems was that Beethoven had to grow up fast and carry the ball, so to speak, because his family was poor and his father liked to hit the bottle.

As an adult, most of those portraits show him brooding and scowling, and it was his nature to occassionally lose his temper and cut loose with some scathing insulting remarks to any poor so & so who happened to be in his line of fire.

In other words, he didn't have the best social graces, and things only got worse when he began to lose his hearing. Sometimes he wasn't the cleanest guy either, or too concerned about presenting a conscientious image of fashion to the world.

Even so, the fact is that women were fascinated with him, even if only for short interludes.

To me the thing that's just so fascinating about him (besides his phenomenal impact on music), is that he demanded treatment as an equal, and would not tolerate the lower class music servant status,that alas, poor Mozart was subjected to.

He was invited into homes of aristocracy, he was sought after by wealthy patrons of the arts.

So keep practicing, listen carefully to your inner music, abide by your personal beliefs,
and watch what happens. ~Les

Chris
01-26-2001, 12:05 AM
I compose. I dated the love of my life for 4 years and a few weeks ago she said she never wanted to see me again. No explination. No nothing. This has caused me extreme emotional and even physical problems. Trust me, my friend, it's not better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Not when it's done like that...

Serge
01-26-2001, 02:47 AM
Interesting stuff, this...

Ludwig was not a true outcast; were he, he'd never have become a prominent figure in Vienna nor have had the support of his numerous friends and patrons. As a child, Ludwig was indeed known not to have had many friends to play with, but it is also suspected that he kind of brought that on himself by not actively seeking out friends to play with. He did poorly in school (more thru lack of interest than anything, I think) and that certainly helped distance his outer self from others.

Not until he left Bonn did he really start socializing (stout, you did spell it right!). Throughout the remainder of his life, he did not go without the support of at least a close circle of people carefully chosen by L. The attitude of the ordinary Viennese was usu. hit-or-miss, but I don't think that really concerned L. Beethoven dealt only with the people he wanted to deal with.

So having said that, don't despair, stout. You are among the empathetic here. I don't compose, but I listened to c.m. for as long as I remember and that distanced me somewhat from my friends. Never really bothered me too much because we had other common interests. And, Chris, terribly sorry to hear about that. Her loss, really. Time heals all wounds (supposedly).

Chris
01-26-2001, 03:41 AM
Well, maybe, but it's not only that. I'm actually pretty worried about her. She's gotten into some things I don't think are really that safe. I guess I'll just have to wait a while and try to see what happens. She thinks everything is OK, and she doesn't even understand that she's hurt me so badly. I hope things clear up with her.

I guess I'll just listen to Beethoven for now...

PDG
01-26-2001, 08:09 AM
Christophe (stout),

Why the thanks? It was your other (name change) post which made me think you had been at our favourite Cockney pub, The Brahms & Liszt. This is because you were, & are, slightly incoherent, esp. compared to previous posts. I didn`t know you were only 16, & certainly didn`t mean to make fun of you. Sorry.

It seems to me that you are wearing your heart on your sleeve. Maybe you`re lovesick? At 16, that is tough to deal with. I think it`s esp. hard when you are of a sensitive, romantic, artistic disposition. Believe me, I`ve been there, my friend, but you will pull through. Like Leslie says, paying your dues is all part of the learning curve.

A tip which used to work for me (heck, it still does!): With the next girl you fall for, compose a short piece, & adorn it with her name. Give her a recording, but don`t add singing (can appear naff)! If this doesn`t do the trick, you can always use the same music for the next girl, but (& this is important!), remember to change the dedication!!

Finally, remember that you are among friends here, & I, for one, will be very interested to follow your progress as a composer. Good luck!

PDG
01-26-2001, 08:49 AM
GUYS,

What`s happening to us? Chris, I`m so sorry. Rod, with your ex, ditto. Peter, with your exes, ditto ditto. Christophe, see previous post. Luis, hard luck. Common denominator: Women trouble! And I thought Beethoven was unlucky in love!! Are we listening to the wrong kind of music? God forbid, are we listening to the wrong composer?!

Of late, this forum has become something of an agony column (eek!), & I would implore Leslie & Suzie to speak to the Sisterhood on our behalf, before any more damage is done. Tone down the oestrogen, girls! Just in case this trend is contagious, I have now fitted a chastity belt to my Clare; it`s second-hand, & a bit rusty, but as I`ve explained to her, better some slight discomfort than the dreaded Beethovenitis. Or, to give it its full, correct Latin name: Internetus Forumingus Classicalissimus Musicorum Heartbreakingoloponomy Meninparticularum Beethovenitis Syndrome (Medical advice: Don`t try saying this on an empty stomach) http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/wink.gif

Suzie
01-26-2001, 10:25 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PDG:
[B]Christophe (stout),

Why the thanks? It was your other (name change) post which made me think you had been at our favourite Cockney pub, The Brahms & Liszt. This is because you were, & are, slightly incoherent, esp. compared to previous posts. I didn`t know you were only 16, & certainly didn`t mean to make fun of you. Sorry.

It seems to me that you are wearing your heart on your sleeve. Maybe you`re lovesick? At 16, that is tough to deal with. I think it`s esp. hard when you are of a sensitive, romantic, artistic disposition. Believe me, I`ve been there, my friend, but you will pull through. Like Leslie says, paying your dues is all part of the learning curve.

A tip which used to work for me (heck, it still does!): With the next girl you fall for, compose a short piece, & adorn it with her name. Give her a recording, but don`t add singing (can appear naff)! If this doesn`t do the trick, you can always use the same music for the next girl, but (& this is important!), remember to change the dedication!!

Finally, remember that you are among friends here, & I, for one, will be very interested to follow your progress as a composer. Good luck!

Dear Guys,

I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. I will get with the 'sisterhood' immediately!!! I personally LOVE those kinds of artistically temperamented bad boys! I have one of my own. And when he's not around, like this week he's in Cuba, I have my Ludwig. So let let me get with the girls and will straighten this whole thing out.

Yours,

Suzie

Peter
01-26-2001, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by PDG:
GUYS,

What`s happening to us? Chris, I`m so sorry. Rod, with your ex, ditto. Peter, with your exes, ditto ditto. Christophe, see previous post. Luis, hard luck. Common denominator: Women trouble! And I thought Beethoven was unlucky in love!! Are we listening to the wrong kind of music? God forbid, are we listening to the wrong composer?!




No PDG, we,re definitely listeneing to the right composer - the one who understands and who we can empathise with ! Actually you may have touched on a reason we're all drawn to St.Ludwig of Bonn - I think of all the great composers, he probably suffered the most, yet his music is full of optimism - it's as though he's saying 'I know things are bad, but trust me, everything will be OK' - the trouble with the Romantic composers is that they wallow in their misery and say 'things are awful - top yourself!' - and I say that as someone who loves a great deal of Romantic music - I just think Beethoven is a damn sight healthier for the mind and soul.


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'Man know thyself'