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amadeus
12-15-2000, 06:21 PM
Allright I know this is probably one of the hardest questions you could ever answer. Simply because there are two many Beethoven pieces that are too damm good. But,

What is the single piece of Beethoven's music that you would choose above all the rest?

Lets use the trapped on the desert island scenario and you could choose one single complete piece, any symphony, concerto, sonata, trio, Fidelio, Missa Solemnis, quartet, you get the idea.

I gotta got to be honest. I havent got a clue. At the moment(and I say at the moment because it seems to change just about every 3 months) the second movement of his 3rd symphony is just about the greatest piece of music ever written. It's filled with so much emotion its almost unbearable, simply amazing especially when performed by Karajan.

So I think I would be choosing the "eroica" except I cant be held responsible for any last second panic In which case more then likely I would grab the ninth. But who knows????? Like I said before to much to choose from.

Anyway im curious to hear what you would choose? Do the same thing with Mozart.
I'd like to hear your choices for him to.
Or Classical Music in general. If you dont think that the greatest piece of music ever written belongs to one of these two gentlemen tell me who it does belong to.

Chris
12-15-2000, 07:33 PM
Yeah, I think I might go with the 3rd Symphony too. Mozart? Probably Piano Concerto #23. If I had to pick something not by either of these two...Tchaikovsky, Piano Concerto #1.

Suzie
12-15-2000, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by amadeus:
Allright I know this is probably one of the hardest questions you could ever answer. Simply because there are two many Beethoven pieces that are too damm good. But,

What is the single piece of Beethoven's music that you would choose above all the rest?

Lets use the trapped on the desert island scenario and you could choose one single complete piece, any symphony, concerto, sonata, trio, Fidelio, Missa Solemnis, quartet, you get the idea.

I gotta got to be honest. I havent got a clue. At the moment(and I say at the moment because it seems to change just about every 3 months) the second movement of his 3rd symphony is just about the greatest piece of music ever written. It's filled with so much emotion its almost unbearable, simply amazing especially when performed by Karajan.

So I think I would be choosing the "eroica" except I cant be held responsible for any last second panic In which case more then likely I would grab the ninth. But who knows????? Like I said before to much to choose from.

Anyway im curious to hear what you would choose? Do the same thing with Mozart.
I'd like to hear your choices for him to.
Or Classical Music in general. If you dont think that the greatest piece of music ever written belongs to one of these two gentlemen tell me who it does belong to.

Oh, God, I'm in agony! Beethoven, the 9th Symphony, Mozart k.364.

amadeus
12-15-2000, 09:59 PM
oops...I forgot to list my pic for Mozart.

Im thinking his fifth violin concerto. I know im passing on the Requiem, which I cant believe, and his wonderful piano concertos(there all amazing) and some of his symphonies inparticularly 40 and 41. But the third movement of his fifth violin concerto is just too good to pass up. Its possibly my all time favorite piece of music that has anything to do with a violin. Beethoven needless to say can give that statement a run for the money with some of his works.

Luis
12-15-2000, 10:08 PM
Only one from any composer?
No Doubt: B's 9th.

More than one?...say 4 from other composers than B?
MMMM... Tchaikovsky's 6th, Mahler's 2nd, Mozart...I don't have a M favorite...ok his Vesperae solennes de confessore, K.339. And...I don't know... Dvo... no...eh.. Sch... hmm..no, Tch...hmm...no...Bee
-No, you can't choose him.
-But...
-NO!
Ok! Mahler's 5th!

Peter
12-16-2000, 03:59 AM
An impossible task indeed and a very sad one when you consider what you would have to leave behind -

If a gun was to my head I suppose I'd have to choose Beethoven's 9th as the greatest piece of music ever!

Other classical composers selection would be :
Mozart - Don Giovanni
Bach - B minor Mass
Handel - Messiah
Haydn - The Creation
Schubert - Piano Sonata in Bb
Schumann - Piano Concerto
Brahms - Piano Concerto no.2
Tchaikovsky - Symphony no.5
Dvorak - 'Cello Concerto
Wagner - Liebestod from Tristan und Isolde
Mahler - Symphony no.6 (Slow movement)
Elgar - 'Cello concerto
Rachmaninov - Piano concerto no.3


------------------
'Man know thyself'

Serge
12-16-2000, 06:37 AM
Here's what I'd option for my stranded-on-deserted-island box set:

Beethoven's 9th
Schumann's piano concerto (like Peter)
Dvorak's piano quartet no. 2
Saint-Saens' symphony no. 3
Berlioz's March Hongroise

I suppose I could make do with this selection; long enough, at least, to build a raft and get the hell over to an HMV on the mainland somewhere.

PDG
12-16-2000, 07:48 AM
On a desert island, I could survive without food, but not without Beethoven! If I`m allowed just one work, It will have to be the 6th symphony. Schubert`s string quintet is another `must have`. My Mozart would be either the C minor piano concerto or the `Jupiter`. And I can never go too long without something by Chopin.

Who mentioned food? Fish and chips here I come..........

Chris
12-16-2000, 09:23 AM
But happens when the batteries in your CD player run out? Noooooooooo...

Actually, if you've watched enough Gilligan's Island, you should know you can make batteries out of coconuts. http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/wink.gif

PDG
12-16-2000, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Chris:
But happens when the batteries in your CD player run out? Noooooooooo...
Actually, if you've watched enough Gilligan's Island, you should know you can make batteries out of coconuts. http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/wink.gif

Batteries??

Any island I agree to be stranded on simply MUST have its own orchestra!

amadeus
12-16-2000, 04:51 PM
OK so far we got 4 votes for the ninth, two for the eroica, and 1 for the sixth. Seems to be only symphonies so far. I guess thats not to suprising.

PDG you'll actually choose the sixth over the third, fifth, and ninth.

And am I the only other one who likes the seventh more then the sixth? I really get mad when people tell me that Beethovens best symphonies are the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 9th. Always leaving off the seventh.

Dont get me wrong I love the sixth and all, I just always had it behind the seventh.
However I am now realizing that the only version of the sixth that I happen to have is doen by Karajan in 63. Recently I been reading that this performance of the sixth is not a partticularry good one. Sure sounds great to me But I dont have anything to compare it too. The same people who said this also went on to say that the eroica and the ninth are two of the best recordings of these symphonies. And I can testify to that. So far Karajan 63 blows any other version I've heard of these AWAY..

For all you of you who said the ninth, who do you think gave the best poerformance of this ground breaking symphony?

PDG
12-16-2000, 07:58 PM
Amadeus,

Yes, I put no.6 above no.7, but it`s very close. I probably rate no.8 as my least favourite, yet I love this work. In fact......

I shall be brave here, and throw my hat into the ring. Who will follow me? In descending order of preference, I go.......

6,9,3,2,7,5,1,4,8.

MCS
12-16-2000, 08:46 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by amadeus:

And am I the only other one who likes the seventh more then the sixth? I really get mad when people tell me that Beethovens best symphonies are the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 9th. Always leaving off the seventh.

The seventh is my second favorite and I would be very unhappy to leave it behind, since I would have to take my favorite, the 9th, to that desert isle. The first two movements of the 7th are sublime but (Am I allowed to say this?) the third movement is something of a let-down.

As for best performance of the 9th, I really like Abbado and the Berlin Philharmonic. (It has the added bonus of including Ben Heppner, and I'm always eager to support a fellow-Canuck!) I have the Karajan 63 version also, but prefer the Abbado.


[This message has been edited by MCS (edited 12-17-2000).]

Suzie
12-16-2000, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by PDG:
Amadeus,

Yes, I put no.6 above no.7, but it`s very close. I probably rate no.8 as my least favourite, yet I love this work. In fact......

I shall be brave here, and throw my hat into the ring. Who will follow me? In descending order of preference, I go.......

6,9,3,2,7,5,1,4,8.

PDG,

We've been down this road before and it ended in tragedy. I find a different symphony valuable for different moods and circumstances and I hear them differently each time. Trying to rank them would make me crazy. STOP THE MADNESS!

Suz

ps. You really rank the 5th, 6th?

amadeus
12-16-2000, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by PDG:
Amadeus,

Yes, I put no.6 above no.7, but it`s very close. I probably rate no.8 as my least favourite, yet I love this work. In fact......

I shall be brave here, and throw my hat into the ring. Who will follow me? In descending order of preference, I go.......

6,9,3,2,7,5,1,4,8.

Ok the sixth is your favorite. I cant say I agree with that, and I cant agree with your list neither.

Id say 9,3,5,7,6,1,2,4,8-- and you can pretty much flip flop anyone of those first three. I've had each one as my favorite for a certain length of time. I believe the fifth was originally my first fav. Then I went to the ninth, then I actually went to the seventh but now Im on the "eroica", as my fav.

But to have the 2nd symphony in front of the fifth is nutz. I agree with Suz you just cant do that.

But then again we all have our own tastes, I mean do you know that there are actually people living on this planet that dont even care nor appreciate the music of our favorite composer. MIND BOGOLING!!!!

Chris
12-16-2000, 09:23 PM
For me it is 3,4,7,9,5,6,1,8,2, so I do rank the 7th above the 6th. Sometimes I actually rank the 4th above the 3rd.

PDG
12-16-2000, 09:54 PM
SUZIE:-

I agree with you, but I said it to provoke reaction, and...PRESTO!

AMADEUS:-

I would call putting 1 above 2 "nutz". http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/smile.gif

CHRIS:-

Sometimes, you put 4, 1st! And 2, LAST!! Suzie`s right, this is complete madness. http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/biggrin.gif

Chris
12-16-2000, 10:42 PM
Woo-hoo, I'm totally crazy!!!!!!!
http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/cwm/killtard.gif

Luis
12-16-2000, 11:52 PM
9, 7, 3, 6, 5, 8, 4, 2, 1 (When I hear his 3rd I rate it on the 2nd place...that happens)

Karajan's 84 remastered on Karajan Gold collection is my own preference of the 9th. Itís one of my all favorite records in fact. I remember I received the recommendation from the other forum when we where there. Was that you Chris? Whoever was Iím eternally grateful. His first and 2nd movement are the most powerful Iíve ever heard. The finale is glorious too. I've heard Karajanís 63 version (his most laureate version) as well as his 77 or 76 and I still prefer the last one. Still I donít entirely like the other symphonies Iíve heard from Karajan besides his 9th and 5th. His 7th is awful (the intro is too fast), 3rd mmm. his 6th has the last movement (again) way too fast. Unfortunately, the best versions of the 3rd and 7th I have (and they are awesome) I have on mp3 and I still donít know which versions are.

I don't know why but I suspect the bethovenian-type guy likes more the 3rd than the 9thÖ(Rod?) (Iím not making fun of you, if that is what you can see from here. You know, my English...)

God! Itís Saturday night and Iím here. I finally gave my last exam today (by mail with 2 days of delay...) and Iíve been almost two days without any sleep. God Iím so beat.

Luis
12-17-2000, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Peter:

Other classical composers selection would be :
Mozart - Don Giovanni
Bach - B minor Mass
Handel - Messiah
Haydn - The Creation
Schubert - Piano Sonata in Bb
Schumann - Piano Concerto
Brahms - Piano Concerto no.2
Tchaikovsky - Symphony no.5
Dvorak - 'Cello Concerto
Wagner - Liebestod from Tristan und Isolde
Mahler - Symphony no.6 (Slow movement)
Elgar - 'Cello concerto
Rachmaninov - Piano concerto no.3


(What am I still doing up!?)

Mahler's 6th?
some glimmers...the rest is chaos http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/smile.gif (not the 3rd mvt though)
Aren't you referring to the 5th slow movement?

Dvorak - Cello Concerto (great stuff, as well as Brahms's 2nd pc)
Rachmaninov's 3rd?... I like his 2nd more.
Hey, nobody mentioned Dvorak's 9th!

Peter
12-17-2000, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by Luis:
(What am I still doing up!?)

Mahler's 6th?
some glimmers...the rest is chaos http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/smile.gif (not the 3rd mvt though)
Aren't you referring to the 5th slow movement?

Hey, nobody mentioned Dvorak's 9th!

No I mean the Andante Moderato from the 6th - I think it is breathtakingly beautiful - I also love the Adagietto from no.5
I prefer Dvorak 8 to 9.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

Peter
12-17-2000, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by amadeus:

And am I the only other one who likes the seventh more then the sixth? I really get mad when people tell me that Beethovens best symphonies are the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 9th. Always leaving off the seventh.



Much as I love the 6th, I think I prefer the 7th - One thing I've noticed in everyone's choices is how far down the list the 8th comes which I find puzzling - It's one of my favourites - particularly that amazing finale!



------------------
'Man know thyself'

Serge
12-17-2000, 07:33 AM
My Beethoven hit parade goes like this:

9th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 3rd, 4th, 8th, 2nd, and 1st.

Like MCS, I prefer the 9th as seen by Abbado and the Berliner (on Sony, right? 1996?). Like MCS, I'm Canadian, and appreciate our own homegrown contribution. A lot of what appeals to me of Abbado's version is that he reexamined the score himself and made many small changes that reflect what he believed was deficient in the original editions. He's not conducting another's edition; he's working off his own. As a true believer in the art of interpretation, I take Abbado's work as a shining example. I can't wait to hear how he did his new cycle with the B.P. for DG.

Michael
12-17-2000, 09:59 AM
My favourite symphonies in order would be: 6,7,3,9,5,8,2,4,1
The sixth symphony was the first time I ever consciously heard Beethoven so I will always love it above the others. The one I wish I wrote myself is the "Eroica".
But if I had to pick a single Beethoven work it would have to be the first of the middle quartets, Opus 59 No. 1. I could go waffling on for pages about this piece, but I think I'll go and listen to it instead.
If I were on that desert island and had to choose other composers I (having failed to drown myself) would pick:

Bach's Brandenburgs, Suites and Magnicat
Haydn's Symphony No 104 and about thirty string quartets
Mozart's Clarinet Quintet (NOT THE CONCERTO! I don't like it and I don't know why!)
Schuberts Fifth Symphony and A minor quartet
Scumann's First and Fourth Symphonies
Brahms' Four Symphonies
Bruckner's Fourth
Mahler's First and Fourth
Sibelius' Second
Tchaikovsky's Fifth and Sixth
Elgar's Enigma Variations
Anything by Gilbert and Sullivan

Better to have two desert islands, not too far apart with all of B on one and the rest on the other. Oh.. and a small boat. On second thoughts, forget the boat and the second island.........

Michael

Rod
12-17-2000, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Peter:
An impossible task indeed and a very sad one when you consider what you would have to leave behind -

If a gun was to my head I suppose I'd have to choose Beethoven's 9th as the greatest piece of music ever!

Other classical composers selection would be :
Mozart - Don Giovanni
Bach - B minor Mass
Handel - Messiah
Haydn - The Creation
Schubert - Piano Sonata in Bb
Schumann - Piano Concerto
Brahms - Piano Concerto no.2
Tchaikovsky - Symphony no.5
Dvorak - 'Cello Concerto
Wagner - Liebestod from Tristan und Isolde
Mahler - Symphony no.6 (Slow movement)
Elgar - 'Cello concerto
Rachmaninov - Piano concerto no.3



Looks like all you need would be Classic FM's Greatest Hits.

Rod

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

Rod
12-17-2000, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Suzie:
PDG,

We've been down this road before and it ended in tragedy. I find a different symphony valuable for different moods and circumstances and I hear them differently each time. Trying to rank them would make me crazy. STOP THE MADNESS!

Suz



Ever the voice of reason Suz!

Rod

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

Suzie
12-17-2000, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Rod:
Looks like all you need would be Classic FM's Greatest Hits.

Rod



Ever the 'wise guy' Rod!

Suzie
12-17-2000, 04:07 PM
SUZIE:-

I agree with you, but I said it to provoke reaction, and...PRESTO!

AMADEUS:-

I would call putting 1 above 2 "nutz". http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/smile.gif

CHRIS:-

Sometimes, you put 4, 1st! And 2, LAST!! Suzie`s right, this is complete madness. http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/biggrin.gif [/QUOTE]

PDG,

I fell for your provocation 'hook, line, and sinker'!

Last night I went to a Beethoven birthday party and the orchestra played the 1st Symphony. It was so lovely, I thought to myself 'I can listen to this everyday for the rest of my life'. Have another listen! This ranking business is utter madness, I tell you!

Suz

ps. It's only got a wee speck of Mozart and it's not Haydn's 80th Symphony. It is truly B. They also played Schubert's 6th. Why? Is it because he stole huge chunks from B?

Kevin
12-17-2000, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Rod:
Looks like all you need would be Classic FM's Greatest Hits.

Rod

Kevin
12-17-2000, 04:50 PM
Rod, force yourself and play the game. What would be your picks? It will make Amadeus happy.

Originally posted by Rod:
Looks like all you need would be Classic FM's Greatest Hits.

Rod

Peter
12-17-2000, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Suzie:
[
ps. It's only got a wee speck of Mozart and it's not Haydn's 80th Symphony. It is truly B. They also played Schubert's 6th. Why? Is it because he stole huge chunks from B?



I'd say Schubert's 6th was more Rossini than Beethoven! - I'd also say in Schubert's defence that nowhere does he sound anything like B, so plagiarism is an unfair charge !

------------------
'Man know thyself'

Suzie
12-18-2000, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Peter:
I'd say Schubert's 6th was more Rossini than Beethoven! - I'd also say in Schubert's defence that nowhere does he sound anything like B, so plagiarism is an unfair charge !



As my memory is horrible, I will have to get my hands on Schubert's 6th and tell you exactly what I mean, which is not the overall feel of the piece, but a specific melody.

sasha
01-16-2001, 12:56 PM
Wow - OK, my absolute favorite piece of all would easily be the 9th! But I also really love Piano Concerto #5 and totally agree with the person who named the 7th symphony as being one of their favorites. While I love the Pastoral, I do prefer the 7th.
Can't I just take my collection to the desert island?
I noticed other people submitted other faves to include, so mine would be:
Handel: Water Music
Bach: Double Violin Concerto, Air on G String
Haydn: Symph. 85
Khachaturian: Masquerade Suites
Vivaldi: Winter (from Four Seasons)
Rossini - Overture from Barber of Seville
Mascagni - Cavalleria rusticana
Barber: Adagio for Strings
Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto #2
Mozart: Piano Sonata #11 and #1
Chopin: Nocturne in Eb
Strauss: Kaiser-Walzer (Emperor Waltz)
Mendelssohn: Symph 4 (Italian)

....and that's narrowed down!
I certainly hope coconuts CAN be made into batteries. I KNEW I should have watched more Gilligan's Island episodes!

Wendy

christophe
01-22-2001, 08:27 PM
For Beethoven, I must admit I have many favorites of his works. I have narrowed it down to favorite sonata, symphony, concerto.
For sonata, the 1st movement, which I can play on the piano, as Iam sure most of you could. Symohony you say? Probally the 2nd movement of the 7th. And finally, my real favorite, the Piano Concerto No. 5 in E flat major, 2nd movement of the "Emperor" Adagio un poco moto.

Hope this helps.
C. van S.

Roehre
11-15-2009, 09:02 PM
If I had got to go for a Desert Island, I would take with me:

-Beethoven: quartets op.59, 74, 130-135, symphony 6 + 8, missa solemnis, violin sonatas op.47 and 96;
-Mahler: Lied von der Erde (especially Der Abschied), 7, 9 + 10
-Brahms: violin concerto, symphony 3, "Thun" violin sonata
-Schoeck: violin concerto, horn concerto, string quartets; violin sonatas
-Kelterborn: symphony 4
-sibelius: symphony 4; nightride and sunrise;
-Martin: symphony, petite symphonie concertante, violin concerto;
-Wagner: Tristan prelude and Liebestod, Parsifal prelude and orchestral music mainly cococted from third act (BPO/Abbado);
-Shostakovich Symphonies 10 and 15, both cello concertos;
-Schumann: symphony 2;
-Webern: orchestral music (Passacaglia op.1, pieces opp.5, 6 and 10, symphony op.21, variations op.30)

DavidO
11-16-2009, 08:54 PM
The one Beethoven composition I would be most miserable without is the Missa Solemnis, so I would take it. I have a powerful hunch that this -- more than any other Beethoven work -- will prove to be the most healing & revivifying to me in my years to come. For my soul, it is balm in Gilead.

Peter
11-17-2009, 11:56 AM
If I had got to go for a Desert Island, I would take with me:

-Beethoven: quartets op.59, 74, 130-135, symphony 6 + 8, missa solemnis, violin sonatas op.47 and 96;
-Mahler: Lied von der Erde (especially Der Abschied), 7, 9 + 10
-Brahms: violin concerto, symphony 3, "Thun" violin sonata
-Schoeck: violin concerto, horn concerto, string quartets; violin sonatas
-Kelterborn: symphony 4
-sibelius: symphony 4; nightride and sunrise;
-Martin: symphony, petite symphonie concertante, violin concerto;
-Wagner: Tristan prelude and Liebestod, Parsifal prelude and orchestral music mainly cococted from third act (BPO/Abbado);
-Shostakovich Symphonies 10 and 15, both cello concertos;
-Schumann: symphony 2;
-Webern: orchestral music (Passacaglia op.1, pieces opp.5, 6 and 10, symphony op.21, variations op.30)

Welcome to the forum Roehre - an interesting selection and I confess one that contains two composers I'd not heard of before, Schoeck and Kelterborn.
Looking back on my own selection from 9 years ago, some would remain but I would change several.

My revised choice would include:

Beethoven Quartets Op.59 no.1, Op.74, Op.95 and Op.130,
Piano concerto no.4, 3rd and 8th symphonies.
Mozart Piano concerto in D minor and Eb
Handel Guilio Cesare
Bach B minor mass
Brahms Symphony no.3 and Bb sextet plus clarinet sonatas and piano quintet
Dvorak Cello concerto and 8th symphony
Tchaikovsky Symphony no.4
Sibelius symphony no.6
Mahler symphony no.6
Wagner Tristan prelude and Liebestod
Verdi Don Carlos
Bruckner symphony no.7

This could go on for ever, an impossible task!!!

Roehre
11-17-2009, 11:41 PM
Thanks Peter and Philip for welcoming me here.:)
If I had to stick to the one work I would go for the Missa solemnis (at this moment that is, quite recently I would have answered: Grosse Fuge)

Peter
11-18-2009, 08:56 AM
Well Peter, you can always come to me too for an additional list of composers you have never heard of. I also extend my tentative greetings to Roehre. Salute, both of you!

I dare say there are some on my list unknown to your encyclopedia gigantica brain!

Peter
11-18-2009, 09:00 AM
Quite right, Roehre. Today for me it's Op 132. Tomorrow ... well, it changes, doesn't it?

Well you'll see from my original post 9 years ago that I chose the 9th as my Beethoven work, but I've been on this desert island a long time now and am desparate for a change - thankfully HMS Philip the Great passed by and they let me have the 4th piano concerto - till next time!

Michael
11-18-2009, 01:49 PM
Beethoven Opus 59 No. 1. But, as Philip says, that's just today's choice.
Tomorrow it could be the first Razumovsky ... and the day after it could be his String Quartet No 7 in F major.

Peter
11-19-2009, 06:32 PM
If HMS Philip the Great knew you were that solitary person on the desert island I would have thrown you a barrel of salt and some tinned anchovies to go with it! Hah!

And only a few weeks ago you were inviting me for a drink, I didn't realise you meant salt water!