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Chris
01-03-2001, 02:24 PM
I was thinking about the piano sonatas, and I was wondering if it would be possible to put them in order from the easiest to play to the hardest (in a technical sense only). Anyone want to try this one?

Peter
01-03-2001, 06:22 PM
None of the Sonatas are of course easy, and hardly a single movement can be competently mastered by anyone below grades 7 or 8.
Not counting the delightful Op.49 sonatas,I'd say the Pathetique is probably one of the easiest (that's not to say it's easy!), and that without a doubt Op.106 is the most challenging, both musically and technically.
Of the early sonatas, the most difficult are Op.2 no.3 and Op.10 no.3.

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'Man know thyself'

PDG
01-03-2001, 11:17 PM
I think that with Beethoven, `mental technical` is tougher to apply than `practical technical`. I can play op. 49/2, but I doubt whether it will ever sound exactly as I`d like. This mental block is even more to the fore in the `Hammerklavier` adagio - note for note, not terribly difficult, but the concentration required is massive. The `Moonlight` adagio is "easy", but the presto is frightening!

I play to grade 6, & have attempted all the sonatas. Since Chris wanted a pecking order, & since I can play, if not brilliantly, I rank them (complete) in this "how quickly I gave up!" order:

Nos. 20,19,25,10,9,5,1,2,

8,16,3,24,15,6,12,27,

14,7,13,26,4,22,18,17,

11,21,28,30,31,32,23,29.

Luis
01-03-2001, 11:30 PM
To order the piano sonatas AND the string quartets? That's indeed too hard. I think I could spent two hours trying to order this just to see it a week later and think I should have ordered differently! Instead of that I will only mention two I like from different periods:
Piano Sonatas:
Early:
Op. 13
Op. 27/2
Heroic:
Op. 57
Op. 53
Later:
Op. 106
Op. 111
Op. 110
String Quartets:
Early:
Op. 18/1
Op. 18/5
Heroic:
Op. 59/1
Op. 74
Later:
(ALL!!!)
Oků mmmm Op. 130 and Op. 132

I always wondered something about op. 106. Why this sonata and specially its last movement is always played so chaotically? I mean, I like that way but it bothers me to listen plenty of melodical lines which are never empathized. What do you think about this?


Hey, I received my Solomon's Beethoven yesterday!! And today I bought Fidelio by Kemplerer (Emi, 1962) http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Luis (edited 01-03-2001).]

Luis
01-03-2001, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by PDG:

I play to grade 6, & have attempted all the sonatas. Since Chris wanted a pecking order, & since I can play, if not brilliantly, I rank them (complete) in this "how quickly I gave up!" order:

Nos. 20,19,25,10,9,5,1,2,

8,16,3,24,15,6,12,27,

14,7,13,26,4,22,18,17,

11,21,28,30,31,32,23,29.


mmm. I thik it's the other way! 29, 23, 32, 31...
(hey, that would be my first four pics too!)

Rod
01-04-2001, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by Luis:

I always wondered something about op. 106. Why this sonata and specially its last movement is always played so chaotically? I mean, I like that way but it bothers me to listen plenty of melodical lines which are never empathized. What do you think about this?


I agree, but one could say this about the performace of all Beethoven's 'difficult' fugues! Of course with regard to those of the piano, the lighter, more colourful tone of the pianos in B's time assist the clarity of interpretation, and thus perhaps also make the performer more aware of the melodies hidden in these works.

Originally posted by Luis:

And today I bought Fidelio by Kemplerer (Emi, 1962) http://www.gyrix.com/~cgraye/ubb/biggrin.gif


What do you make of this recording? It was my first recording of Fidelio, I bought it because the critics regard it as the best. Well I can say, in my opinion, it is the worst interpretation I have heard. Everything goes too lamely, lacking all momentum and dynamism, beginning at the overture!! I don't think K captures the true spirit of the work. Why it is recommended is a mystery to me.

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

Michael
01-04-2001, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Rod:
What do you make of this recording? It was my first recording of Fidelio, I bought it because the critics regard it as the best. Well I can say, in my opinion, it is the worst interpretation I have heard. Everything goes too lamely, lacking all momentum and dynamism, beginning at the overture!! I don't think K captures the true spirit of the work. Why it is recommended is a mystery to me.

Rod



It's funny, Rod, but I can't warm to the Klemperer either, although I like his Missa Solemnis. My favourite version is the Karl Bohm, where you can hear the orchestra as clearly as the singers. Leonard Bernstein's lively recording is good, too, but I know you don't like these guys!

Michael



[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 01-04-2001).]

Chris
01-04-2001, 02:57 PM
I don't get how you can say it lacks momentum, Rod. Everything seems dang near perfect to my ears. I guess we just like different things, but it seems strange that one thinks it's the BEST and one thinks it's the WORST.

Peter
01-05-2001, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by Chris:
I don't get how you can say it lacks momentum, Rod. Everything seems dang near perfect to my ears. I guess we just like different things, but it seems strange that one thinks it's the BEST and one thinks it's the WORST.

In a few years time you'll probably change your mind, and a few years later probably change it back again! - It is strange how our tastes change.I have some Klemperer recordings of the Symphonies which 10 years ago I thought were marvellous, I can hardly bear to listen to them now!

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'Man know thyself'

Rod
01-05-2001, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by Chris:
I don't get how you can say it lacks momentum, Rod. Everything seems dang near perfect to my ears. I guess we just like different things, but it seems strange that one thinks it's the BEST and one thinks it's the WORST.

When I compare it with my other, much earlier, recording by Frenec Fricasy (not sure of spelling here) on DG the sence of increased momentum and dynamism in the latter is noticable. It has been refered to as the nearest recording we have of an 'authentic' performance, even though the spoken dialogue has been reduced here and there. It depends on ones metabolic rate I suppose! I have a version on video performed at the Royal Opera House (spit!) that is better still.

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 01-05-2001).]